RZM 57 SS versus SS 63 RZM: the MW saga

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

http://daggers.infopop.cc/groupee/fo...2/m/4110094424

[SScollector]

Hello JP and everyone!

Good work on the 63/57 saga.
I just wanted to add a couple pieces of the puzzle, (I wish I had more).

Anyway, the first thing that I wanted to mention, further supports the theory that these items that are marked with the "57" code started earlier than the ones marked with the "63" code.
That is, the fact that I have seen early nickel SS overseas cap skull buttons marked with "RZM 57" but with no "SS" marking.
I have also seen a few of the "RZM 57" marked skull buttons
that did have "SS" on it. So, it seems to me, that these buttons
started before the "SS" marking rule, (or preference), came about
and then they started adding the "SS" marking to the buttons and
sometime after that, the "RZM 63 SS" marked buttons were introduced.
I can't tell if the "RZM 63 SS" marked buttons were remarked
from previously marked "RZM 57" or "RZM 57 SS" buttons,
but one thing is certain, and that is that the "RZM 63 SS"
marked buttons are much more commonly encountered,
than either the "RZM 57" or "RZM 57 SS" marked buttons
and I have never seen a "63" marked button that did not have
the "SS" marking.

One more thing JP: You mentioned the possibility that
the 63 and 57 numbers could have been SS contract numbers
instead of early RZM numbers, but I highly doubt that is true
because I have never seen any SS item with an SS contract number
that did not include the year that the die was made,
(such as, "155/36", or "36/40", and so on).
Lastly, I have seen proof that M. Winter made at least some of those skull buttons because Bob Hritz showed us one skull button from his collection
that is identical to the other nickel skull buttons, except that it is marked
"RZM M5/69", (M. Winter), and this proves that M. Winter
was still manufacturing these buttons after the "M5" prefix was
introduced, (and also would have been produced after the "RZM 63 SS"
buttons). So, my guess is that M. Winter sold them to S. & L.
while still continuing to sell them himself, (or something similar).
Maybe the owners of these two firms were cousins or something.

Does anyone know which of these two firms was the most popular
and how popular were they?
Maybe M. Winter sold them together with S. & L. because of low popularity reasons or maybe M. Winter was just trying to help S. & L.

Well, good luck with the 57/63 saga.
Looking very forward to your buckle pics, JP.

Best, Chris

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Above thread updated today

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Updated (but still not finished)

[Ric Ferrari]

Updated (but still not finished)

I've greatly appreciated your update

Ric

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Last update done