Martin Winter of Munich - HJ

[David North]

It may be my imagination, however Martin Winter buckles as RZM 57 or RZM M4/2, do not appear too often.

Here is a nickle on steel HJ.

Note the distinct catch and "split" seam to the pin shroud.

Any other buckles by Winter that may be shown ? The only other marked Winter that I have, is a nickle silver DAF-Werkschar. Let me know if images would be of interest.

Regards,

David

[David North]

02

[David North]

03

[David North]

04

[Ric Ferrari]

It may be my imagination, however Martin Winter buckles as RZM 57 or RZM M4/2, do not appear too often.

Here is a nickle on steel HJ.

Note the distinct catch and "split" seam to the pin shroud.

Any other buckles by Winter that may be shown ? The only other marked Winter that I have, is a nickle silver DAF-Werkschar. Let me know if images would be of interest.

Regards,

David

Hallo David,

with all due respect, are you sure the HJ posted is by Martin Winter ?
If you carefully look at the side of number 2 (under magnification) you may see traces of the number 4 , may be factory ground off : so it's by Friedrich Linden (M4/24).

Best

Ric

[schorschi]

Hello b.collector,
i can see only RZM 4 / 2
Did You have eyes like a eagle?

I must say, i donot wear my glasses / pocket-lens

Best

[David North]

Ric

When I first received this buckle, I scrutinised the damn thing with a fine tooth comb. I was actually hoping to find traces of either the number 57 or the letters MW.

Unfortunately not so, although there is the very slight possibility toward traces of an original and then erased stamping.

Brilliantly spotted !

It may be a series of scratches that have coincidentally formed the lower edge of the number four, or the remains of an actual number four stamp. If there was once a number four lurking there, then I think it is no more than the remains of the quite odd hand stamping (the re stamping of M4 ?) apparently favoured by and perhaps common to Martin Winter.

Who knows if the original maker and stamping was by another manufacturer ? In this instance, I am going to plump for the buckle as always having enjoyed a M4/2 mark.

Regards,

David

Schorschi

I will try and take some images to emphasise this oddity and to give you a reassurance that you do not need spectacles.

[Ric Ferrari]

Ric

When I first received this buckle, I scrutinised the damn thing with a fine tooth comb. I was actually hoping to find traces of either the number 57 or the letters MW.

Unfortunately not so, although there is the very slight possibility toward traces of an original and then erased stamping.

Brilliantly spotted !

It may be a series of scratches that have coincidentally formed the lower edge of the number four, or the remains of an actual number four stamp. If there was once a number four lurking there, then I think it is no more than the remains of the quite odd hand stamping (the re stamping of M4 ?) apparently favoured by and perhaps common to Martin Winter.

Who knows if the original maker and stamping was by another manufacturer ? In this instance, I am going to plump for the buckle as always having enjoyed a M4/2 mark.

Regards,

David

Schorschi

I will try and take some images to emphasise this oddity and to give you a reassurance that you do not need spectacles.

David,

take a look at the pics of my HJ buckle by Friedrich Linden......

Hello b.collector,
i can see only RZM 4 / 2
Did You have eyes like a eagle?

I must say, i donot wear my glasses / pocket-lens

Best

Schorschi,

not only good eyes.....

Best

Ric

[Ric Ferrari]

Back side

[Ric Ferrari]

Close-up M4/24 marking

[Ric Ferrari]

Post sleeve assembly

[Ric Ferrari]

Hello b.collector,
i can see only RZM 4 / 2
Did You have eyes like a eagle?

I must say, i donot wear my glasses / pocket-lens

Best

Emphasized by a red line the traces of number 4 I'm able to see.

Best

Ric

[David North]

Ric

I can do better than that.

Here is a photo merge which includes your HJ, with the number 4 digitally buffed out.

Compared to mine - like "two peas in a pod" I would say.

Will respond later and in more detail about this very interesting and puzzling metamorphosis.

Incidentally and of course my apologies, I now have no doubts whatsoever that the buckle I hold, started life exactly the same as yours.

Regards,

David

[Chad Williams]

great thread guys!! interesting turn of events ...by the way, I love the catch on this buckle it is very out of the ordinary for an HJ nickel!!

[Ric Ferrari]

....the catch on this buckle it is very out of the ordinary for an HJ nickel!!

Chad,

just to be exact : my HJ buckle is by nickeled steel (magnetic), the catch bridge probably by nickel (non magnetic).

Ric