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    #1

    Paul Cramer - RZM 72 ?

    Does RZM 72 represent Paul Cramer and Cie.?

    The subject has of course been discussed before at :-

    http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=145006

    Here we go again.

    Attached is what I consider to be a very interesting (and rare)SA buckle that shows a clear RZM 72. There is both good news and bad news about this buckle as can be seen !! Also attached is a SA buckle that shows an equally clear RZM 59.

    The question I suppose is why should Paul Cramer be producing similar period SA buckles, where some show what is supposedly an "abbreviation" of UE 72 and others, an "abbreviation" of RZM M1/59 ?

    Regards,

    David
    Tags: None
    #2
    RZM 72 - the good news.
    Last edited by David North; 09-10-2006, 09:34 AM.

    Comment

      #3
      RZM 72 - more good news.
      Last edited by David North; 09-10-2006, 09:34 AM.

      Comment

        #4
        RZM 72 - the bad news.
        Last edited by David North; 09-10-2006, 09:34 AM.

        Comment

          #5
          RZM 72 - this is what the obverse is supposed to look like.
          Last edited by David North; 09-10-2006, 09:34 AM.

          Comment

            #6
            RZM 59 - obverse.
            Last edited by David North; 09-10-2006, 09:34 AM.

            Comment

              #7
              RZM 59 - reverse.
              Last edited by David North; 09-10-2006, 09:34 AM.

              Comment

                #8
                RZM 59 - detail.
                Last edited by David North; 09-10-2006, 09:34 AM.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Most interesting, David!

                  I have started compiling RZM lists from the original sources with the aim of tracing licenses held over time by buckle manufacturers registered with the RZM. My efforts so far were severely hampered by my "favourite" library being in the process of re-allocating book storage areas and at the moment having lost all trace of the Mitteilungsblatt der RZM . I did get the Handbuch der RZM for 1935, however. As of 1 May 1935, Cramer held M4/44 and M5/72, but no M1 license. Also, the license no. M1/59 was not assigned at all as of that date, although M1 licences are recorded running into the 90ies.

                  Very odd and to really find out Cramer's "first wave" license (RZM & two-digit no.) one would need to find them in the 1934 Mitteilungsblatt where new registrations were regularly published.

                  One possibility is that at least up to 1 May 35, Cramer did not make any of the items egulated under M1, and therefore its 1st-wave number was registered either under M4 or M5, i.e. being either 44 or 72.

                  It stands to reason that new licences were numbered consecutively, so some-one must have had a 1st run RZM 59.

                  I'll be sure to report back once the Mitteilungsblätter become available at the Berlin Staatsbibliothek again.

                  Bst regards, Karl

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Cremer

                    Hello all,

                    Somewhat off topic, but I have a brother named Paul Kramer...........I have to get me one of these

                    William Kramer
                    Please visit my site: https://wehrmacht-militaria.com/

                    Comment

                      #11
                      A really goog question David!! Any chanve to compare the prongs(...) from a HJ "RZM 72" with these two SA buckles?

                      Question to all, does anybody have a "RZM UE 72" marked buckle? I'm absolut sure that I saw once such a marking, and I think it was on a HJ buckle!

                      Christian

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Christian

                        This is not going to help you much.

                        Regards,

                        David
                        Last edited by David North; 09-10-2006, 09:33 AM.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          02
                          Last edited by David North; 09-10-2006, 09:33 AM.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            03
                            Last edited by David North; 09-10-2006, 09:33 AM.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Kurt Doench View Post
                              Most interesting, David!

                              I have started compiling RZM lists from the original sources with the aim of tracing licenses held over time by buckle manufacturers registered with the RZM. My efforts so far were severely hampered by my "favourite" library being in the process of re-allocating book storage areas and at the moment having lost all trace of the Mitteilungsblatt der RZM . I did get the Handbuch der RZM for 1935, however. As of 1 May 1935, Cramer held M4/44 and M5/72, but no M1 license. Also, the license no. M1/59 was not assigned at all as of that date, although M1 licences are recorded running into the 90ies.

                              Very odd and to really find out Cramer's "first wave" license (RZM & two-digit no.) one would need to find them in the 1934 Mitteilungsblatt where new registrations were regularly published.

                              One possibility is that at least up to 1 May 35, Cramer did not make any of the items egulated under M1, and therefore its 1st-wave number was registered either under M4 or M5, i.e. being either 44 or 72.

                              It stands to reason that new licences were numbered consecutively, so some-one must have had a 1st run RZM 59.

                              I'll be sure to report back once the Mitteilungsblätter become available at the Berlin Staatsbibliothek again.

                              Bst regards, Karl
                              I recently got a HJ buckle with RZM 59 if someone is still interested


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