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**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 01-15-2003, 08:14 PM

Hello Keifer,

Many original belts or cross strap for para military organisations (HJ, SS, DRK, etc, etc...) have black stitching. I don't know why, or if there is a difference between the off white stitching and the balck one, but it is a fact.

**keifer kahn** · 01-15-2003, 09:50 PM

Thanks jean pierre.You never fail to amaze me with your wealth of knowledge.Thank you so much for your reply.

I asked the question because ive been lookin lately at a number of different service/organisations belts and buckle tabs.
Ive noticed there seems to be a mainly offwhite thead used for army/luft/navy tabs and belts: also on any belts associated with the waffen ss.But i hardly see black or any other colour used.
Black thread seems to be used more as jean pierre mentioned ':for para military groups:
Ive seen black as well on political belts,belts associated with the algemeine ss,HJ as i asked the question about,SA as well.

I wonder if the white thread was a slightly stonger type and was reserved for use on equipment that would be undertaking the rigours of battle.Not just parade or rally bashing?

Any thoughts?

regards keifer

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 01-16-2003, 03:43 PM

I am thinking the same as you. I have at least two original leather goods with the black stitching without going to dig further: one is a SS Cross strap (discontinued for wear by 1940) for Officers, and the other is a very early (1934) SS Belt used for parade (stitching covered by another layer of leather - so maybe even private purchase). I guess the black thread was stronger than the white but thinner. In such case, it will fit better for nice looking items (especially black ones), but could be more expensive. Combat gear don't have to be "nice looking" but cost of manufacture can be taken in consideration. So why use the black one when the white is cheaper ?

Anyway, it is just thoughts ...

**Marc verstraete** · 02-01-2003, 03:39 AM

Interesting question indeed,
I had a fast overview of my collection and I have noticed that 99 % of ALL the tabs on the buckles are sown with white tread. This is for W.H, KM, LW, Post, Rail, Red Cross, DLV,
SS EM with factory tab, Police, EO.
HJ and DJ never have tabs.
I found only one variation and this is on an EM Police buckle where the tread is brown like the tab. Also, lots of buckles have the tread darkened by shoe-polish or patina but where originally white.
As for the belts, I need to do more research, (my belts are in storage in large boxes) but from what I have seen on the samples I have in my office, the majority of the leather tongues and catches are also sown with white tread.
Although in this case most of the time the tread has been tinted with the colour of the leather. One can see this by lifting the leather tongue and looking between the two parts.
As for the SS belts, I have 50/50; some with white some with dark tread.
Lets do some research…………..
Marc V.

**R_Hessian** · 02-01-2003, 07:21 AM

Thread!

During my mothers last visit to my home I showed her some unissued German WWII holsters from Russia. They where part of the captured stock sent to the Soviet Union after the war. I pointed out my concern in the "orange" color of the thread, Her response was, "why, thats a coating that they put on the thread which eventually wore off" my Mother said that her leather school back pack had the same coating.
I then opened up a "used" holster and shined a bright light inside of it and dog gone if the thread did not have some of that " orange" coating on it even though the outside threads where white!
Just a tid bit from my Mom, she was a kid in WWII Germany!
Regards,
Robert

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 02-01-2003, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by Marc verstraete
SS EM with factory tab

Marc,

What do you mean by "factory" tab ?

**Marc verstraete** · 02-01-2003, 02:20 PM

Hello JP,

I speak about the SS aluminium buckle I have with the tab originally on the buckle and with the RZM , faktory / maker and waffenampt stamps on. I did not waned to call it a "prototype tab".

Marc

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 02-01-2003, 04:15 PM

So, you are still talking about the 822/38 you have. What makes you believe this tab was placed on the buckle by the C.T. Dicke factory ?

**Marc verstraete** · 02-02-2003, 07:13 AM

The tab was indeed most probably not but on the buckle at C.T.D but at the leather factory which address is on the tab or at a official depot of the SS.
Marc

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**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 02-02-2003, 10:47 AM

Marc,
It is good to comment since readers could start to believe there was SS buckles with tab known to be made at their respective factories which is so far false.
As a note, I still do not believe at all this tab was produced to fit SS Buckles. It is a scarce leather tab (for me) and was certainly placed on this SS Buckle during Third Reich period IMHO, but here is the only connection I can see between the tab and the buckle.

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