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**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 12-20-2002, 01:07 PM

Just save you money even if one or two "could" be original.

**Vadim K** · 12-20-2002, 01:40 PM

Jean Pierre, what, doesn't look good to you? Not even one? Please? lol

But he "dug" them himself!!! Man, if you can't even trust the stuff you dig out of the ground... I am shocked, shocked I tell you

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 12-20-2002, 06:38 PM

Hello Budulai,
I spent the last two years to study and post many differences between original SS aluminum buckles and fakes from East Europe which are no more no less cast from the original and, believe me, there is many differences. Some I said, some I didn't (on purpose since I don't want to provide keys to the perfect match). It is well known that fakers are using the "ground dug" outlet to sell whatever is the worst production. Buckle are acid dipped, sand blasted... whatever they can do to have the "rotten" look is done ! It is understandable since they camouflage all pits, flaws, etc... BUT some details still remain, and many of the buckles you sent link to have such. The others are part of the "maybe yes, maybe no". Once I have those in hands or with other angle photos I will be able to tell, but since the story said by the seller is bull, why will I spend more time on it? If 80% is bull, I don't care about the remaining 20%, especially in this condition. Do you ??

Best Regards

**Vadim K** · 12-20-2002, 06:59 PM

Jean Pierre,
Of course I would not care for the remaining 20% either, if it had to do with medals or badges which are my area of interest. But you have to understand something: I am not a purist like you, I only want a few buckles to add character to my display of awards. Under these circumstances, it makes no sense for me to shell out $800 for a real SS buckle (maybe some day...)
This guy's buckles looked fine enough for that purpose, but of course I wanted an opinion of someone like you, who is an expert.
All I would like to know is this: could you look at them again and tell me which ones are "maybe yes, maybe no" and what would be reasonable for me to pay for them. I appreciate your help.

**Paul Massucci** · 12-20-2002, 07:31 PM

No need to pay $800. You should be able to find a genuine SS enlisted buckle in fairly decent shape for a lot less.

**Luftm40** · 12-20-2002, 07:34 PM

My advice..save your money. $800??? I recently sold a very nice almost mint (and original) WSS buckle on the estand for $200. I just bought an original combat-used WSS buckle/belt vet bring back for $225. You can find a nice original piece for a reasonable price w/ patience.

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 12-20-2002, 07:37 PM

Hello Budulai,

You can purchase a nice (not brand new, not 100% rusted, but nice - much more nicer than any of those) SS Buckle in steel, unmarked, for less than $200. Up to you to know if one of those listed is enough attractive for the price you will pay compared to wait for another.
For what I can see, the only steel #5 is probably ok (90% chance it is), the #4 could be, but I will never be able to tell if I don't have the buckle in hands, #6 could be ok and I will be able to say for sure when you receive the buckle and give me exact measurements (55% chance it is original). If it comes to be a fake, will you have your money back ? But I will be able to tell 100% at this point.

Other than that ...

Still my advise remains, purist or not.

At least, nobody will say I didn't warn you ...

Best Regards and Good luck !!

**keifer kahn** · 12-20-2002, 07:57 PM

Budulai,
I have collected ground dug items for a while now and the majority of these buckles appear to have that"antiquified"look.
B&S Militaria in Poland have at the moment several genuine ground dug enlisted ss buckles ranging from $25US to $150US depending on condition.These havent been cleaned to the point of looking sanitised,they still look in the same condition they were when they were pulled from the ground.Also not advertised,and you must ask specifically are ground dug officers buckles$150US.
I have one of these in zinc,marked RZM(double circle)OLC(in a diamond)SS(in a circle)36/42.B&S have some left.

Regards keifer

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 12-20-2002, 08:42 PM

Last but not least...

The auction is on, and I remember where it was (and still is). So I went back and checked his feedbacks. He is saying he dug the items himself, right ? Did he dug the shirts also ? Look at his feedbacks like I did, they are obvious: the seller sells shirts from Russia, and it is his main business !! So, where did he find the buckles ? Buying those from who know who ... and I am kind of pretty sure he does not even know they are mostly fakes and sell those in good faith. But you are warned ...

**Vadim K** · 12-20-2002, 10:50 PM

All right, all right, you guys win, I will wait for the real deal on e-stand.

Jean Pierre and everyone else, thank you for you comments. And yes, I have been on Ebay for a number of years, so I know the score, and of course I looked at his feedback and of course I know better than to believe any story associated with Russia or Eastern Europe. I am originally from Russia myself and I have seen a flood of fakes there as well as in Poland and East Germany.

**keifer kahn** · 12-21-2002, 05:20 AM

Budulai,
If you dont have any luck try B&S.I recomend them.

regards keifer

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 01-07-2003, 10:24 AM

Budulai,

You were wise to stay away as we advised you !!

I received yesterday those photos direct from Russia, along with the text which follows (copy/paste). This was sent to me by a friend of mine who has a familly member been a "real digger" in former USSR. Of course, I removed some part to preserve identity of the original sender since it is not important anyway. This person does not have any connection with the internet and totaly ignore it, so none of those photos were saved from anywhere on the net, guaranteed. Surprised ????

Best Regards

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 01-07-2003, 10:28 AM

ORIGINAL TEXT (Copy/paste)

J.P. hope you have had a happy holiday.. My wifes cousin has been doing
some investigating for us.. He thinks he has found a person that has been
making the buckles.. He has been bringing alot of SS buckles to the meets the
last 2 years and now most seem to be the dug variety,,they are easyer to pass
off. The bad thing is that SOMETIMES he does have good ones.. I will send you
some shots..this one is marked 66/40

Attached Files

ss b 1.jpg (42.8 KB, 210 views)

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 01-07-2003, 10:29 AM

Second Photo Attached

Attached Files

ss b 2.jpg (37.6 KB, 208 views)

Announcement

Are these SS buckles ok??

Are these SS buckles ok??

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