GAU ESSEN, Large swastika, Croatian, Rumanian Buckles: SS Related ?

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

I know Robin, The marking is strange… It’s one of these buckles…??
but I do have a picture of the 1929 party day where the SS wears this buckle. (Even officers)


No information’s on them and all the ones I see are different!!

Marc

We also know plenty of photos (including some picturing H.Himmler) of SS wearing standard SA buckles. It does not mean specific SA buckles were reserved to the SS neither. With only 280 SS men (including leaders) by January 1929, still depending of the SA's Chief of Staff, it is very doubtful that any specific attention other than the ability to wear a distinct branch color (black) on some "uniform" parts was given to them. It is enforced observing a well known photo of Himmler and his staff taken by 1929 picturing about 40 SS (which were leaders on top!!). On this photo we can see just a bunch of disparate "uniforms" which is perfectly understandable knowing that the SA struggling with finances and supplies will not help much more, or too kindly any SS man gonig a piece at a time outside its total control, even if this latest was liable to purchase his own uniform.

For myself, if we start to call such buckles "SS buckles" we will soon end up calling any SA buckle the same. At least someone had a good idea (but didn't know much about history dates) to increase the value of this buckle.

[StevenD]

That is a nice buckle. If we are talking about the bodyguard SS unit wouldn't the correct abbreviation be L.A.H. with periods after each letter, or perhaps LAH with no periods? Perhaps LAH. represents something else such as an abbreviation for one word such as somebody's last name, maybe Lahofstein or something like that being abbreviated.

Just some speculation.

[StevenD]

Thanks for the reply. Well, the good news is since there are so few out there the fakers will not be able to easily get their hands on one since I doubt any will come on the market so easily and with them not being able to have one on hand I doubt they can make correct copies.

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

That is a nice buckle. If we are talking about the bodyguard SS unit wouldn't the correct abbreviation be L.A.H. with periods after each letter, or perhaps LAH with no periods? Perhaps LAH. represents something else such as an abbreviation for one word such as somebody's last name, maybe Lahofstein or something like that being abbreviated.

Just some speculation.

I guess you are indeed correct. I have in my collection two EM leather belts of unquestionnable origin and both have part of their marking in the form L. SS A.H. (no dot after the runic SS but one after the L, A and H).

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

I know Robin, The marking is strange… It’s one of these buckles…??
but I do have a picture of the 1929 party day where the SS wears this buckle. (Even officers)

No information’s on them and all the ones I see are different!!

Marc

If you are looking for photo evidence, look at the first known photo of the SS-Stabswache taken in Berlin on April 8th, 1933 during their first public apparition for a Hitler's speech in front of the SA. At this time the LAH name was not at all in use (see above) but you can notice all SS are already wearing regular SS Buckles.

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

I know, a few people are only agreeing to call SS buckles the “PURE” Arian German SS buckles with classic motto and inset but personally I make a subdivision of all the foreign Allgemeine SS and collaboration buckles as most of them where supervised by the SS, used the same uniforms and runes or where later integrated in it anyway.Marc

I am part of those you think are just "few", but this will be a waste of time to debate. On an historical value, and why the few are considering only German SS Buckles as interest in their collection, is because only such buckles were really German, controlled by Germans and made in the former Reich. Many countries used cannon fodder whenever it was available, and Himmler did the same. But no member of those "satellite" SS was ever granted German citizenship. So, from a "pure" point ...

[Marc verstraete]

There are plenty of pictures of these buckles worn during the 1920’s period, my comment on the 1929 party day specific picture is that this is for me (there might be others) the last picture where such buckle is worn. The oldes one ( SA/SS worn) beeing the 1925 Strosstrupp AH picture with the DE standarte and the big eagles on the caps.

As for German buckles made in the “German Reich”… German Citizenship, Nationality, ect…. I don’t collect this stuff out of political opinion so I don’t care but Hitler never said to a German “” If I had a son I wished he was like you”” but he did said this to the Belgian commander of the Walloon SS legion Leon DG. upon awarding him the knight cross, or was it the oak leafs? Much higher honour than a Citizenship I would say…

Marc

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

There are plenty of pictures of these buckles worn during the 1920’s period, my comment on the 1929 party day specific picture is that this is for me (there might be others) the last picture where such buckle is worn. The oldes one ( SA/SS worn) beeing the 1925 Strosstrupp AH picture with the DE standarte and the big eagles on the caps.

Does not make this kind of buckle SS (and certainly not its marking ).

As a note, there was no longer the name of Stosstrupp AH by 1925. This name diseapered after the November 1923 putch. Shortly reformed after Hitler's liberation in December 1924, the newly named Stabswache became two weeks later Schutz-Staffel (SS).

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

As for German buckles made in the “German Reich”… German Citizenship, Nationality, ect…. I don’t collect this stuff out of political opinion so I don’t care but Hitler never said to a German “” If I had a son I wished he was like you”” but he did said this to the Belgian commander of the Walloon SS legion Leon DG. upon awarding him the knight cross, or was it the oak leafs? Much higher honour than a Citizenship I would say…

Marc<!-- / message -->

This was indeed said during the Léon Degrelle interview gave in Spain after the war. During the same interview, Léon Degrelle said also that A.Hitler personnaly prepared for him some sandwishes ...

I do not contest the fighting value of those "satellite" SS, or their historical credential, but just the point of vue for the interest in collecting. In fight, all of them at least wore the regular SS Buckle, even Léon Degrelle!
Without your input, I would not even took care to answer.

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

As for the commercial move…. If this buckle ends up one day to be attributed to the SA, Police, or any other organisation than the SS, the value will not change, as there are only so much of them. Marc

... but the demand will drop significantly. And if there is no demand to keep price up, price will go down. Basic.

[Marc verstraete]

The “Gau Essen “ buckle has always been a hard to find buckle, regardless if it is SS, SA, Red Cross, Police, HJ cantina Abteilung, SS paratrooper submarine anti jelly fish units or even a non official or prototype buckle! The price of this buckle has been 1000 / 1500 € for the past 10 years. Mr. REDEUILH has sold his for about the maximum value trough the website of a French dealer / collector and just enjoy causing suspicion and trouble between members of this forum.

The “ Gau Essen” buckle is a original, very well made, beautiful buckle of the same series as many other buckles produced during the pré war period. Whatever it is, It will always be part of a complete buckle collection. What Mr. REDEUILH doesn’t understand due to his focused mind on SS buckles is that most collectors collect buckles for their beauty and quality, not because they are from such or such organisation. For example: the “Heinkel” factory protection buckle, made with the same excellent craftsmanship as the “Gau Essen” buckle is just a “civilian” night porter guard buckle and has nothing SS or military but is much searched for by buckle collectors and his value even higher than the so passionately debated “ Gau Essen”.

Marc

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Mr. VERSTRAETE,
Even if I sold my first "Gau Essen" a while back (and very glad to have obtained what I did since it is even written on my sale certificate I am NOT endorsing at all this buckle as SS related - sorry, but I cannot change my integrity for money purpose), I am struggling to sell my second "Gau Essen" which is even nicer than the first one.
Do you want it? I can take without any problem your low end estimate (1000 Euros) and I will pay shipping, insurance and registration worldwide.
In the meantime, if your temper cannot accept facts, at least please leave my name alone or go back to your dealer activity which you are performing much better than anything else. If I am causing suspicion and trouble between members, you just have to prove this buckle is SS related. It will be your only way to keep prices up for the numerous you have yourself for sale. German buckle collectors are just a handful compared to SS memorabilia collectors and the only reason why the Gau Essen buckles "were" selling high was because someone had one day the great idea to call those "SS" Gau Essen back in 1961. In a very close future, an article dealing with strict facts regarding those "Gau Essen" buckles will be out - backed up with invoices and strict evidence - and not written by me!! This day, we will see how the market will react and will accept to pay for those "Gau Essen" buckles. Maybe it will be a wise idea to prepare some "On sale" tags ...
Since I earn my own living you are right, I like to cause suspicion and trouble just to bring to myself less money. You are also right, even after been a registered dealer in WWII memorabilia in France and USA from 1988 to 1996, and just a collector after this period, I do not understand the market because I am just a plain idiot. Maybe it is because I need money to buy brain, what do you think, Mr. VERSTRAETE?

Ah, all this gave me the desire to listen "Dreamer" from Supertramp...

Best Regards

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Oh, I forgot: The edited/moved new thread is now a mess IMHO. There is no longer any possibility to understand to which post the answer was intended to reply without going back and forth in the whole thread, read again everything and try to understand what's going on.

[Gaspare]

I am not a buckle collecter but do have a few basic buckles in my collection. I do find them very interesting though. This topic is also a interesting one. Looking at the buckle I can see where someone might draw the conclusion that this is SS related. BUT from what I understand there has been nothing to support this opinion. Well a scarce piece anyway..A original did sell last year at GDC for $750. Maybe the price is being driven up because there are some promoting these as SS ,which is what a lot of collectors want..

Question: The few of these that I have seen on the forums always appear to be in very good condition. Why? Do any of the members have a well worn example they'd like to show?? , thanks , G.

[Pieter Verbruggen]

The “Gau Essen “ buckle has always been a hard to find buckle, regardless if it is SS, SA, Red Cross, Police, HJ cantina Abteilung, SS paratrooper submarine anti jelly fish units or even a non official or prototype buckle! The price of this buckle has been 1000 / 1500 € for the past 10 years. Mr. REDEUILH has sold his for about the maximum value trough the website of a French dealer / collector and just enjoy causing suspicion and trouble between members of this forum.

The “ Gau Essen” buckle is a original, very well made, beautiful buckle of the same series as many other buckles produced during the pré war period. Whatever it is, It will always be part of a complete buckle collection. What Mr. REDEUILH doesn’t understand due to his focused mind on SS buckles is that most collectors collect buckles for their beauty and quality, not because they are from such or such organisation. For example: the “Heinkel” factory protection buckle, made with the same excellent craftsmanship as the “Gau Essen” buckle is just a “civilian” night porter guard buckle and has nothing SS or military but is much searched for by buckle collectors and his value even higher than the so passionately debated “ Gau Essen”.

Marc

.....ooooh and I thought the "H" winged buckle, was ment for the SS-Himmler guards, sh*t and I paid so much for it....and now you say its not SS.

Pieter.