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GAU ESSEN, Large swastika, Croatian, Rumanian Buckles: SS Related ?

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    #61
    <HR color=#cfb992 SIZE=1>


    This message was originally send by Mr Redeuilh but was merged from another post on Postschutz buckles and will be better discussed here on this post on Gau Essen buckles.

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    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Marc verstraete


    GARY!! My comment on the SS Postschutz buckle was a joke related to the Gau Essen post on this forum!!!


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    So, maybe, you should quit joking and start thinking. The day you will be able to find ANY realistic clue (other than your SS Officer estate story which is nada) leading to the conclusion the Gau Essen buckles "could" be SS related, at this time you will be able to joke. Until then, it would be rather wise to have a thaught for all collectors who did buy those buckles sky hight because books were all saying they were SS related. I do not believe most current owners of those buckles did pay over $1500 because they were some "oeuvre d'art" and/or rare to find ... Sorry, but I always been on the collector side, not the dealer one, and I strongly believe only the greedy dealer will support an idea which is not fully justified.

    <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Quote:
    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">I suppose the SS Postschutz could have worn the Postschutz buckle, as the SS also used W.H, LW and many other buckles. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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    Yeap, many things are suppositions like a SS officer wearing an EM "SS" Gau Essen buckle. But at least Garry's photo shows not a supposition but an evidence. And we can all note the SS Postschutz cufftitle is worn along with a regular SS Buckle ... Do you think some are starting to promote Postschutz buckles as "SS" related?

    <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Quote:
    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">The comment on the Gau Essen buckles and Postschutz buckles factory / maker is not a joke. They are definitely made by the same factory and at the same time. So if someone likes to pretend that the Gau Essen buckles are fake… well, than all nickel Postschutz buckles are fakes also! </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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    Once again, 100% wrong. First thing, the debate on Gau Essen buckles is not about real or fake but SS or not. Second, even a blind could see Gau Essen buckles, Landpolizei buckles and some Postschutz buckles were made by the same maker (just looking at the catch), and relying on the marking on landpolizei, Assmann should be the chosen maker. But, if at least there is landpolizei and postschutz buckles listed in the Assmann sales catalog printed during the Third Reich, there is no Gau Essen buckles. Now, if you want to follow the "total fake" path (why not - it is not currently my path but still needs to be considered just to be objective until further evidence since what others have in hands makes think twice), you are assuming because one major maker did produce buckles during the Third Reich he will not be able to produce other buckles after war using the same team, tools, and materials? Great! We finally find very honest people who are a blessing for collectors Time to get real! You can indeed safely say all those buckles were made by the same factory, but not guarantee at the same time (even if probably is - but just a probability until further evidence).
    <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->__________________
    Jean Pierre Redeuilh
    SS Buckle Forum
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SSBuckles/


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    Last edited by Marc verstraete; 04-27-2004, 10:23 AM.

    Comment

      #62
      Wrong!! There are two other details on these buckles who prove these buckles where made at the same time and by the same factory but NOT necessarily distributed by that factory. One of these details is mechanical related the other being the paint.

      Like on the fake SS 155 ‘s a few years ago, I had the paint analysed on “Gau Essen” buckles, some nickel postal buckles and another buckle that I suspect is made at the same time. The paint is the same. I will not publish the results (as I pay for it), but I post a scan of the type of research the lab douse where I bring my buckles and other material.

      <O></O>

      Wrong also on the SS estate, I was planning, when times permits to make a Post on the SS uniform forum on the items from that estate.



      Marc V.
      Attached Files

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        #63
        *

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          #64
          Great! ! I always liked commercial flyers as evidence job was done. And you had to do also the job for a fake 155/43 which was not fitting on any WWII leather belt? I guess you could have saved there ...

          Ok, you won! at least I am out of all this bull*. Have a good .

          Bye!!
          Jean Pierre Redeuilh
          All my collection of SS Buckles is for sale. Contact jpredeu@rogers.com for inquiries

          Comment

            #65
            Originally posted by Jean Pierre Redeuilh
            Great! ! I always liked commercial flyers as evidence job was done. And you had to do also the job for a fake 155/43 which was not fitting on any WWII leather belt? I guess you could have saved there ...

            Ok, you won! at least I am out of all this bull*. Have a good .

            Bye!!
            If I did the same job a few years ago on the SS 155’s, it was because not many people believed they where fake! Remember? You where the first to benefit from that work. At that time, the test was needed to confront the main dealer of these buckles with his lies.

            Marc

            Comment

              #66
              Originally posted by Marc verstraete
              Remember? You where the first to benefit from that work. At that time, the test was needed to confront the main dealer of these buckles with his lies.
              Jean Pierre Redeuilh
              All my collection of SS Buckles is for sale. Contact jpredeu@rogers.com for inquiries

              Comment

                #67
                Yet another variation, here the prongs are pure nickel. No brass under a coating. The buckle is also in mint condition. The nices one I know until now.

                Marc
                Attached Files

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                  #68
                  Gau Essen

                  A Gau Essen that I thought may be interest.

                  I think that we all agree that the buckle was made by Assmann, although whether it is SS or not, I really do not know.

                  Any ideas or theories?

                  Regards,

                  David
                  Last edited by David North; 09-10-2006, 09:44 AM.

                  Comment

                    #69
                    Reverse
                    Last edited by David North; 09-10-2006, 09:44 AM.

                    Comment

                      #70
                      A smashing buckle and an intriguing mystery, I'm sure most would agree. The SS attribution is certainly a possibility but has anyone thought that it could be SA related? The eagle looks like an elongated form of the SA eagle. The mobile swastika could support this theory. Maybe an early Wehrmannschaft prototype for an organization that was postponed due to the purges of 1934?? The later Wehrmannschaft buckle in aluminium has a similar design except that the eagle is the final political style and there is no local motto.
                      Just a theory.
                      Regards,
                      Kevin

                      Comment

                        #71
                        David....great buckle....wish I had one...chad

                        Comment

                          #72
                          In 1964, I Bought A Large Grouping Of Insignia And Some Buckles From An Ex GI. The Majority Of The Material He Had Taken From The Castle Of A High Ranking Official At The Gau Level Official Of The NSDAP. Among The Items Was A Gau Essen Buckle. Possibly, This Buckle Might Have Some Political Connection For Possibly The Alter Kamraden Of Gau Essen, Possibly To Be Worn With The Brown Shirt. Every One Of These I Have Ever Encountered Is In Unworn Condition, Leading Me To Think That Although Produced, It Became A Non Official Pattern Not To Be Worn. It May Also Be An SS Variation Of The Same Intent. Many Of The High Ranking Political Leaders Were Also Members Of The SS. Nearly 60 Years Since The End Of The War And Still So Many Undefined Items.
                          Bob

                          Comment

                            #73
                            Thankyou for the comments towards this most interesting and still, somewhat enigmatic belt buckle.

                            My own thoughts lean towards Kevin.

                            Chad - have a squint at one of the of the better known German dealer sites, although I hope that you have a change of underpants at the time when you see the price.

                            Without wishing to "talk down" a buckle, I really cannot see this chap as SS.

                            The buckle is possibly SA, although the similar features toward the classic Overhoff SS are striking. In particular the eagle with horizontal wings (as per some SA of course) and the wreath with a declaration, together with the odd "curls" or "swiss rolls" supporting.

                            The colour or finish is also possibly odd for the SS.

                            I think instead a "loose cannon" SA group and actually, a buckle never issued. The various dealers that we know and love so well, I think regard it in their own interest to appropriate this buckle towards SS, however who really cares. A rare and striking item by any definition and for all I know, it could belong to any of a numerous NS para military groups or organisations.

                            What is more interesting though is the theory that the buckle was never issued and instead, a "one of" held in a box of 25 by Assmann.

                            What about however the classic photograph in Catella, showing an oik in mufti and speaking to Ley, wearing an Assmann and all nickle, Landespolizei.

                            A good sign though (imitation is the most sincere form of flattery perhaps), that the "SS Gau Essen" is faked in steel.

                            Regards,

                            David

                            Comment

                              #74
                              Gau Essen buckle??

                              I know there has been discussion on these buckles. Any opinions from experianced buckle collectors welcomed.
                              Garth
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                                #75
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