Originally posted by Renfield
Marc
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The "War orphans" buckle is the same design but it is a aluminium buckle.
Marc -
NS Fliegerkorp
Marc
I now accept that the buckle configuraton has the designation of war orphans by an aluminium construction, however, do you know why ?
This is an early NS design and it does seem a trifle odd that an "old" and flyers associated buckle, should be adopted or resurected in presumably 1939/1940 with possibly, a field green finish.
Interesting though.
Are there any other NS buckles which have a differing wearer status, purely by metal type, rather than say the actual design ?
Regards,
DavidComment
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There are actually three differerent variations of this buckle. The first two are both in nickel-silver and can come in matte silver; matte grey and matte green. One has the hi eagle head-ie above the rope the second has the middle eagle head-ie on the rope and the third which is in aluminum and often called the "Orphan's buckle has the low eagle head-ie below the rope. Hope this helps somewhat.
BillComment
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NSFK or War Orphans
Bill
Many thanks, assume that the attached is the other design that you were refering to.
So, the original image type and this one in nickle silver would be NSFK, although this design (small eagle) in aluminium, would be War Orphans and possibly, enjoy a "finish" to the metal.
Regards,
DavidLast edited by David North; 09-10-2006, 09:46 AM.Comment
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David,
The buckle you show is the pattern for the "Orphan's buckle. If it is a aluminum it is the same one Marc and I are talking about. If it is in nickel/silver it is a new one for me and very interesting. Let me know. Can you show th back. By the way these buckles in ns are often marked NR in an oval.
BillComment
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Hello everybody,
One thing I was always meaning to ask, how do you actually know this type of buckle was intended for the NSFK or indeed the War Orphanages?
Greetings,
KarlComment
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NSFK or War Orphans
Bill
The buckle shown with the small eagle is no longer in my collection and instead, was "upgraded" by the attached as essentially the same.
Again, a small eagle design (although the position of the head is slightly different).
Nickle silver with both an obverse and reverse image attached, together with the makers logo that you have mentioned (although this was on the previous buckle).
Regards,
DavidLast edited by David North; 09-10-2006, 09:46 AM.Comment
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Much like Karl, I'm curious to know about this "war orphans" designation. I've collected EM buckles for over 30 years, have all the reference works (Catella, both Angolias, Bandau, Reid, Baldwin, Nash, et al) and still can't find any obvious reference to a "war orphans" buckle. Though the aforementioned references vary in their ease of use due to their layout, lack of index, in some cases lack of English translation, etc. have I missed the "war orphans" reference hidden away in one of them? It seems highly unlikely that by the time war orphans would have become a significant group, i.e., after the Russian campaigns and concentrated Allied bombing against German cities, precious raw materials could have been put to better use than to produce a "war orphans" buckle. And essentially the same buckle as the NSKK to boot. But that's just my opinion.
I have the "small eagle" version (head below the wreath), unmarked in nickel silver. Page 253 of Anglia's expanded work shows two examples of what he refers to as NSKK buckles and both have the head below the wreath, at least one of which is nickel.
Someone please cite a reference for the "war orphans" buckle.
Perplexed,
DaveComment
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In my previous reply, please read NSKK as NSFK.
Thanks,
DaveComment
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Maybe I can answer some questions with some speculation. The first reference I have ever seen on the "War Orphan' buckle was a photo the name and description on a well known US auction house. This was at least 8 years ago . Snce that time another identical buckle showed up about 3 years ago on the same auction with the same designation. Since the low eagles head buckles were all in one piece aluminum including the two in the auction I think there were a lot of assumptions made as to the designation of this particular buckle in alum. Now for the first time there is shown the same buckle but in nickel/silver. Based on that it would make sense that these three buckles are all NSFK and are just variations in design and in material. The aluminum one is extremely scarce as is (I think) the same pattern in NS. It is possible, due to the relative scarcity of both these buckles w/the low eagle that they had limited distributionm and that they are in fact not NSFK buckles. Are the "Orphans" buckles ??. The Luftschutz buckle in one piece aluminum is also scarce but it is still LS. Anyway some nice buckles you have. It would be interesting to see if anyone else out there has or has seen this low eagle in NS other than the one you show.
BillComment
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Hello!
I would like to give a few informations about the NSFK.
The NSFK was founded at the 01.01.1932. At that time they had(of course) problems to get money and to find pilots in the SA and SS.
In mid 1932 the Fliegerkorps had approx. 5 aeroplans(two from Hitler!).
In March 1933 the NSFK was integrated in into the DLV.
I have a problem to believe, that this little organization had his own buckle. Even if(!) they had an own buckle, it must be 100-times harder to find than the pebbled SA buckles!!!
In 1937 the NSFK had of course a 'come back', but from that time they wear the open claw.
No idea who wore this buckle, but if somebody believe it is NSFK I would like to hear where and when the buckle was worn. Even if it is only a theory...
Regards,
Christian
Comment
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orphanage for children of deceased military personel. Established in 1724.
Photo's : Wim Saris
MarcLast edited by Marc verstraete; 01-15-2004, 04:11 AM.Comment
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Aluminium SA
Great pics, Marc, which prove the orphans association with the SA-style pebbled buckle. But is there anywhere that says the buckle should be aluminium and not nickel? Maybe they used both. Yet another buckle mystery waiting for a solution.
KevinComment
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The only reliable source on the "war orphanage for children of deceased military personnel" I know about is the more than EXCELLENT article by Wim Saris in the Military advisor number 1 of volume 13 (Winter 2001/2002)
In this 30+ pages article one can see at least 6 original pictures of the SA style pebbled buckle with small eagle. One picture is so nice one can assume the buckle is made of aluminium but others might indeed been made of nickel. No regulations are available on the description of the metal of the buckle used. On period uniform regulations the buckle is only summarily drawn and do not even resemble to the actual buckle used as seen on the pictures. On the period drawings the eagle has straight wings and do not resemble to any known buckle. This only means that the buckle itself was not really important, as long it was the pebbled SA style buckle. I do not believe there was a regulation on the type of metal that was to be used. The orphanage must have placed a few orders to one particular buckle factories and they received the model this particular factory was producing. Personally I do not think one has too look to deep into this matter. The differences in the minim details such as slightly bended wings, head over or under the wreath, aluminium or nickel, ect… are not real intended variations like one can read in some books on the subject; but only production variations due to the different manufactures and engravers and NOT a difference of organisations such as NSKK, NSFK, DLV, RLB, orphanage, ect… The children of the orphanage also use other buckles; mostly DJ "S" buckles with silver or black background. During the NAZI period the orphanage was taken over by the N.P.E.A and the N.P.E.A dagger and uniform was used.
MarcComment
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