Some More New DJ Buckles

[Chad Williams]

hello all...
here are 2 new additions to the collection that came in the mail today...first is an unknown...RZM 59 cant find any info on the maker...any htoughts would be great..second is RZM 24 which we all know is Overhoff & Cie...just wanted to share a few more pics..enjoy..Chad

[Chad Williams]

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[Chad Williams]

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[Chad Williams]

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[Chad Williams]

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[Chad Williams]

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[Chad Williams]

sorry for the awful pictures, but it is very late here and am shooting indoor with a flash..sorry guys

[Kurt Doench]

Chad,

I'm at it again: Although there doesn't seem to be proof positive around for it (i.e., none of us have yet found the directive saying so), I do think we can take for granted that the numbers of first-generation RZM licenses, consisting of just a single or double-digit number (the marking being the 'RZM' signet followed by the appropriate number) were in the end allocated to the 'M1' category in April 1935 when the final licencing system was introduced, at least for those companies who (a) held a first-generation licence, (b) made buckles, and (c) were also licenced by the RZM to produce insignia under the final system. It works for Assmann (RZM 17 = M1/17), for Overhoff (RZM 24 = M1/24), for Berg & Nolte (RZM 36 = M1/36) etc. etc. All of these got new numbers for their buckle production under the diversified scheme (KH/M4) but retained their original licence number for M1. Of course, it won't work for a first-generation licencee who was authorised to make buckles, but not insignia. These can, however, only have been a small minority.

In the light of the above, RZM 59 should be M1/59, Paul Cramer, Lüdenscheid.

Regards, Karl

[David North]

Chad

Super "standard" design DJ belt buckles, although the one with the RZM 59 is quite a surprise.

Karl

Keep at it!

I was a tad nervous and by an earlier e-mail by yourself, when you mentioned this RZM M1 theory, although it does seem to correlate quite well.

RZM M1 listing for the benefit of the Forum :-

M1/1 Meyer & Franke, Luckenwalde
M1/2 Richard Conrad, Weimar
M1/3 Max Kremhelmer, München
M1/4 Karl Gutenkunst, Oranienburg
M1/5 Walter Simon, Dresden
M1/6 Karl Flensler, Pforzheim
M1/7 Herman Schanzun, Pforzheim
M1/8 Ferdinand Wagner, Pforzheim.
M1/9 Robert Hauschild, Pforzheim
M1/10 Robert Schenkel, Pforzheim
M1/11 C. Baimberger, Nürnberg
M1/12 Gebrüder Hahne, Lüdenscheid
M1/13 L. Christian Lauer, Nürmberg
M1/14 Matth. Oescbsler & Sohn, Ansbach
M1/15 Ferdinand Hoffstätter, Bonn am Rhein
M1/16 Dr. Franke & Co. K.G., Lüdenscheid
M1/17 E W. Assmann & S6hne, Lüdenscheid
M1/18 Gold-und Silber-Scheide-Anstalt, Oberstein a. d. N.
M1/20 Gustav Emil Ficker, Bejerfeld
M1/21 Paul Meybauer, Berlin-Waidmannslust
M1/22 Johann Dittrich, Chemnitz
M1/23 Wilhelm Borgas, Eutingen
M1/24 Overhoff & Cie., Lüdenscheid
M1/25 Rudolf Reiling, Pforzbeim
M1/27 E. L. MUller, Pforzheim
M1/28 Gebrüder Trautz, Pforzheim-Dillweissenstein
M1/29 Otto Riedel, Zwickau
M1/30 Robert Metzger G.m.b.H, Pforzbeim
M1/31 Karl Pfohl, Pforzheim
M1/32 Gustav Ramminger (Inh. Hans Kuhnle), Pforzheim
M1/34 Karl Wurster, Markneukirchen
M1/35 Wachtler & Lange, Mittweida
M1/36 Berg & Nolte AG, Lüdenscheid
M1/37 Julius Bauer Sohn, ZeIla-Mehlis
M1/38 Carl Wächtler, Weimar
M1/39 Robert Beck, Pforzheim
M1/40 C. Meinel & W. Scholer, Klingenthal
M1/41 H.A. Kohlers Sohn G.m.b.H., Altenburg
M1/42 Kerbach & Israel, Dresden
M1/43 Julius Maurer G.m.b.H., Oberstein a. d. N.
M1/44 C. Dinsel, Berlin-Waidmannslust
M1/45 Friedrich Linden, Lüdenscheid
M1/46 Alfred Stubbe, Berlin
M1/47 Christian Theodore Dicke, Lüdenscheid
M1/48 Alexander Wollram, Dessau
M1/49 Adolf Baumeister, Lüdenscheid
M1/50 Richard Sieper & Sohn, Lüdenscheid
M1/51 Noelle & Hueck G.m.b.H., Lüdenscheid
M1/52 Deschler & Sohn, München
M1/54 Pa. A. Fries, Beuster & Schild, Berlin-Hohenschönhausen
M1/55 August Enders AG, Oberrabmede
M1/56 Erfurter Knopffabrik G.m.b.H., Erfurt
M1/57 M. Winter, München
M1/58 M. Kutsch, Attendorn
M1/59 Paul Cramer, Lüdenscheid
M1/60 Gebrüder Cosack, Neheim
M1/61 Ossenberg-Engels, Iserlohn
M1/62 Gustav Hähl, Pforzheim
M1/63 Steinhauer & Lück, Lüdenscheid
M1/64 Albert Winges, Trusen
M1/65 E. F Wiedmann, Frankfurt am M.
M1/66 Fritz Kohm, Pforzheim
M1/67 Karl Schenker, Schwäb-Gmünd.
M1/68 Gustav Maier, Pforzheim
M1/70 Franz Otto, Wuppertal-Elberfeld
M1/71 Gesell & Co., Pforzheim
M1/72 Fritz Zimmermann, Stuttgart
M1/73 Karl Erbacher, Pforzheim
M1/74 Boerger & Co., Berlin
M1/75 Otto Schickle, Pforzheim
M1/76 Hillenbrand & Bröer, Lüdenscheid
M1/77 Foerster & Barth, Pforzheim
M1/78 Paulmann & Crone, Lüdenscheid
M1/79 Walter Amlauf, Leipzig
M1/80 R. Durr & Fr Seiter, Pforzheim
M1/81 Rutting & Mertz, Lüdenscheid
M1/82 Leistner & Co., Leipzig
M1/83 Willy Annetsberger, München
M1/84 Ernst Schneider, Lüdenscheid
M1/85 Alois Rettenmaier, Schwäb-Gmünd.
M1/86 Ernst Conze, Lüdenscheid
M1/87 Karoline Gahr, München
M1/88 Josef Schulte-Ufer, Sundern
M1/89 Gustav Bühnert, Dobeln
M1/90 Apreck & Vrage, Leipzig
M1/92 Karl Wild, Hamburg
M1/93 Gotllieb Friedrick Keck & Sohn, Pforzheim
M1/94 Friedrich Keck, Pforzheim
M1/95 Josef Fuess, München
M1/96 F O. Naupert, Rosswein
M1/97 M. Nett, Gravier-und Prägeanstalt, Fürth
M1/98 G. Danner, Muhlhausen
M1/99 Peter Wilhelm Heb, Lüdenscheid
M1/100 Werner Redo, Saarlautern
M1/101 Gustav Brehmer, Markneukirchen
M1/102 Frank & Reif Stuttgart.
M1/103 Carl Poellath, Schrobenhausen
M1/104 Otto Fechler, Bernsbach
M1/105 Hermann Aurich, Dresden
M1/106 Funcke & Brüninghaus, Lüdenscheid
M1/107 Emil Juttner, Lüdenscheid
M1/108 Schroder & Co., Lüdenscheid
M1/109 Glaser & Sohn, Dresden.
M1/110 Tweer & Turck, Lüdenscheid
M1/111 Gebrüder Gloerfeld Metallwarenfabrik KG, Lüdenscheid
M1/112 Robert Deitenbeck, Lüdenscheid
M1/113 Gebrüder Dombach, Lüdenscheid
M1/114 Paul Cramer & Co., Lüdenscheid
M1/115 E. Schmidhaussler, Pforzheim
M1/116 Hermann Wernstein, Jena-Lobstedt
M1/117 K. F. Vogelsang & Co., Lüdenscheid
M1/118 Erich Gutenkunst, Berlin.
M1/119 Georg Bonitz, Schwarzenberg
M1/120 Wilhelm Deumer, Lüdenscheid
M1/121 Walter Demmer, Lüdenscheid
M1/122 I. Deutschbein G.m.b.H., Euskirchen
M1/124 Gebrüder Lange, Lüdenscheid
M1/125 Cramer & Dombach. Lüdenscheid
M1/126 Karl Fr. Schenkel, Pforzheim
M1/127 Alfred Stübbe, Inh. Herbert Tegge, Berlin-Waidmannslust
M1/128 Eugen Schmidhäussler, Pforzheim
M1/129 Seiler & Comp., Geldem
M1/130 Grossmann & Co., Inh. Lorenz Hoffstätter & L. Siefener, Wien
M1/136 Matth Salcher & Sohn, Wagstadt
M1/137 Richard Simm & Sohn, Gablonz am N.
M1/138 Matth Oechsler & Sohn AG, Riegersdorf/Bodenbach
M1/139 Rudolf Richter, Schlag Nr. 244
M1/140 Bruno Czerch, Gablonz am N.
M1/141 Josef Felix Sohn, Gablonz am N.
M1/142 Josef Hillebrand, Gablonz am N.
M1/143 Gebrüder Jäger., Gablonz am N.
M1/146 Anton Schenkis Nachf., Wien
M1/147 Eduard Gösel, Wien
M1/148 Heinrich Ulbrichts Witwe, Wien
M1/149 Lentwerk Brüder Schneider AG., Wien
M1/150 Franke & Sohn, Heidenreichstein
M1/151 Rudolf Schanes, Wien
M1/152 Franz Jungwirth, Wien
M1/153 Friedrich Orth, Wien
M1/155 Schwertner & Cie., Eggenberg b. Graz
M1/156 Argentor-Werke, Wien
M1/157 Phil. Turks Witwe, Wien
M1/158 Karl Pichl, Innsbruck
M1/159 Hans Doppler, Wels
M1/160 E. Reihl, Linz
M1/161 Anton Markovskys Sohn, Gablonz am N.
M1/162 Konrad Seiboth, Gablonz am N.
M1/163 Franz Schmidt, Gablonz am N.
M1/164 Aug. G. Tham, Gablonz am N.
M1/165 Rudolf Tham, Gablonz am N.
M1/166 Camill Bergmann & Co, Gablonz am N.
M1/167 Augustin Hicke, Tyssa b. Bodenbach
M1/168 Wilhelm Fühner, Pforzheim
M1/169 Paul Garthe, Milpe
M1/170 B. H. Mayers Hotkunstprägeanstalt, Pforzheim
M1/172 Walter & Henlein, Gablonz am N.
M1/173 Adam Donner, Wuppertal-Elberfcld
M1/174 Petz & Lorenz, Unterreichenbach
M1/175 "Walgo" Kom-Ges., Kierspe
M1/176 Heinrich Vogt, Pforzheim
M1/177 Franz Klamt & Sohn, Gablonz am N.
M1/178 Gustav Kortel, Peterswald b. Bodenbach
M1/180 Metallwarenfabrik S. Jablonski G.m.b.H., Posen
M1/181 Wilhelm Müller, Posen
M1/182 C. E. Junker, Berlin
M1/183 Schmahl & Schulz, Wuppertal-Barmen.
M1/184 W. Aurich, Leipe

Regards,

David

[Kurt Doench]

David,

Let's dig around for examples that don't fit my little theory (could prove me wrong or could provide a short-list of buckle manufacturers who weren't licensed under M1). None of the big ones (the usual suspects where I was able to correlate the early and the M1/.. license number) came a cropper on me yet. But as Sir Karl Popper said, it is endemic to a 'theory' that it can be proved wrong (as opposed to religious belief). This is fun!

Regards, Karl

I was a tad nervous and by an earlier e-mail by yourself, when you mentioned this RZM M1 theory, although it does seem to correlate quite well.

RZM M1 listing for the benefit of the Forum :-

[Chad Williams]

Karl..sounds good, I will get a list together of all of my first series RZM numbers together...chad

[Chad Williams]

Karl...here is a list of all of my first gen. RZM marks

RZM 3-? ** Max Kremhelmer**?
RZM 21-Paul Meybauer
RZM 24-O&C
RZM 33-?????????????????????????????????????????
RZM 50- RS&S
RZM 59-? ** Paul Cramer**?
RZM 72-Paul Cramer
RZM 82-Steinhauer & Luck
RZM 119-George Bonitz
Paul Cramer is listed in Nash' book as RZM 72( the M1 list says it should be Fritz zimmerman)... Davids list omitted RZM 33..I dont know if he missed it or if it is unknown?.... chad

[Wickie]

Hi David & all,

what Karl said is not a theory, it is a fact! The problem: it doesn't work always. I assume that the makers in 1934 were not really sure which number should be on the buckle...RZM? UE? KH? All?
Everybody who read "Mitteilungsblatt" of the RZM knows what I'm talking about.

Karl, I'm sure there are some buckles which don't follow that system. Best example is the HJ buckle marked "RZM 119", I can't believe this is "Georg Bonitz"!

Regards,
Christian

[lach470]

Chad! You lucky devil.....great looking DJ's....you know I'm still out on the prowl for one of these. Man....I think I should consider moving south!

Lookin' good!!

Rob

[Tony]

Nice looking DJ pickups Chad Keep up the good work.

Regards,
Tony