Molded or stamped?!?

[KC1]

last - Thanks for looking at this thread - look forward to hearing your thoughts.

[David North]

Dan

Thankyou for resurrecting and reminding the forum of this very important thread, originally by Christian.

It was posted at a time when there was a huge amount of confusion in connection with the newly emerging fake SS buckles "in aluminium" and where initially, there was thoughts of the process being die stamped.

Christian and others scotched this potentially worrying urban myth.

Cast - and a subject that continues to run and especially in connection with the fake SS, SA-Wehrmannschaft and SHD, to name but three.

The DRK buckle that you have posted is quite interesting as I think at one time, there was an element of suspicion toward those stamped GES. GESCH. and GES. GESCH 1 or 2.

In my opinion, original and die stamped.

The buckle looks fine to myself, although of course, it is an unfinished example by not having the integral bridge catch routed, drilled and finished.

I would normally expect these unfinished buckles to be in pristine and of course, non issued and non worn condition.

Assume however that the one shown has at some time, languished in a damp environment.

Regards,

David

[KC1]

Davis-

Thank you for your insight on this buckle. I agree that there seems to be shroud of mystery to these "incomplete" buckles. I inquired as to it's possible origin but the previous owner picked this up at a military convention some time back and has either forgotten are did not inquire, which I believe the later to be the case.

Would really like to hear Christian's or Marc's view as well. For that matter, any one with comments, theory's, or factoids would be welcomed.

Thanks again for your views.

Dan (KC1)

[Marc verstraete]

Hello Dan, All,

The RC buckle shown above is original and was indeed a never finished stamped model. Somewhere it slipped trough the production control…
What wonders me is the condition…. As the buckle is useless it should be in perfect condition…but it looks almost like a dug item. Must have been stored in a basement for the past 60 years probably.

Anyway, most interesting item!!!!!

Marc

[Sven Janke]

cast wh and lw

hello,

the following pictures might be of interest for some of you, as they show cast luftwaffe and wehrmacht buckles as mentioned but not posted before.
especially the wehrmacht buckle has a quite interesting catch, which should be not that easy to mold.

sven

[Chad Williams]

Sven
great and very rare buckles you have shared with us!!!!!!! these are very seldom seen, and I have only ever had the pleasure of owning 1 example of the luft you have shown. Do you have any thoughts as to the time when these cast (flat back) buckles produced?

[KC1]

David/Marc -

Sorry not to have responded earlier but just got back from a few days of golfing- I did fairly well enough to provide me more purchasing power . Thanks for your valuable input on this buckle and I agree that this should normally be in a more pristine condition, however, I cannot trace far back enough to know where this was stored.

Again thanks-
Dan

[KC1]

Sven-

Very nice buckles indeed!!! I am assuming these were collected frpm within Europe?

Dan

[Guido L.]

Hi all

How is the 1st pattern LW-Buckle from the thread

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=164196

(started from member Kuligow) in consideration to this thread to contemplate?

If this buckle was produced by stamping, why the back shows a lack of details?

I'm very interested in to know, how this buckle was produced.


Regards,
Guido

[Kurt Doench]

Chad,

Sorry for hijacking this, but the firm of Christian Schr******246;der, L******252;denscheid, were offering these exact same buckles with the "thumb-nail" catch in 1936. I have seen their advertisements for these for the police and the Heer buckle, dated to that year. In one of those, they mention the imminent availability of the Luftwaffe buckle.

I so agree that the Luftwaffe buckle of this type is exceedingly hard to come by. I have the Heer and police, and was a tad too late for your Luft when it was offered on the estand .

Best regards, Karl

Sven
great and very rare buckles you have shared with us!!!!!!! these are very seldom seen, and I have only ever had the pleasure of owning 1 example of the luft you have shown. Do you have any thoughts as to the time when these cast (flat back) buckles produced?

[Chad Williams]

Karl
thank you for the year!!! I have always wondered...Chad

[Ric Ferrari]

Chad,

Sorry for hijacking this, but the firm of Christian Schröder, Lüdenscheid, were offering these exact same buckles with the "thumb-nail" catch in 1936. I have seen their advertisements for these for the police and the Heer buckle, dated to that year......

Best regards, Karl

Hi Karl and Chad,

It seems that Schmole & Comp. produced in the same year : 1936

Best

Ric

[Ric Ferrari]

Leather tab 1936 marked

[Ric Ferrari]

Front side

[David North]

Excellent "blind back" buckles being shown here !

Guido

You pose an interesting question and it has been touched upon before within the forum, although I cannot for the life of me, find the past thread and link.

The W-L KS that your refer to is die stamped and with quite wonderful obverse detail. The reverse detail however is decidedly indistinct and does not mirror the obverse, as perhaps once always anticipated.

I am sure that the theory put forward was that as usual, a "male" and "female" die was used, with of course, the aluminium blank being sandwiched between. The pressure forced the metal into the "female" die which provided all the fine detail in reverse, although the "male" die was simply a means of effecting the momentum and pressure. As such, crisp detail to the obverse and a vague image to the rear, as fully anticipated by the tool maker.

No idea as to why this method was sometimes adopted (surely not production cost saving ?) and also, I do not know the extent of the relief detail to the "male" die.

Regards,

David