Discussion needed re: this eStand buckle

[Guido L.]

Interesting. Any other markings? Have you had it a long time?

The buckle on the E-Stand is about 5 times the cost of the same buckle as a Heer example. That is a concern.

The questionable buckle is also a from well-known KM supplier.
But talking about prices makes no sense in this context. I also never understood how such a small stamp multiplied the value. But who sets the value? Why is a 5 to 10 times price charged for a green or web tabbed Luftwaffe buckle? The item is always worth as much as the buyer is willing to spend.

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

The item is always worth as much as the buyer is willing to spend.

Indeed. As long as the seller is not abused on purpose by buyer, it is true.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru....php?t=1046043

[Guido L.]

Indeed. As long as the seller is not abused on purpose by buyer, it is true.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru....php?t=1046043

Since day one, collecting and selling of TR items has been a minefield for both sides. We should always be aware of this. As in real life, there are good and bad people among the collectors and dealers, although in fact the impression arises that many act purely out of personal greed. A discussion forum can help to form a personal opinion, no more and no less. At the end of the day, however, you stand alone with your decision.

[Frans H.]

I am with Dan on this. I am not a fan of this stamp either. I have quite some Kriegsmarine buckles in my collection, but was always weary of this stamp. KM buckles with this stamp I do not want in my collection.

[KC1]

Since day one, collecting and selling of TR items has been a minefield for both sides. We should always be aware of this. As in real life, there are good and bad people among the collectors and dealers, although in fact the impression arises that many act purely out of personal greed. A discussion forum can help to form a personal opinion, no more and no less. At the end of the day, however, you stand alone with your decision.

Exactly Guido - I am not at odds with anyone's view, my reason for posting this was to discuss the KM acceptance stamp. I am not at odds with the person selling his buckle on estand as he can ask any amount he wishes.

My reason for bringing this subject to the forum is from personal experiences and as long as I have been part of this forum, everyone here understood that the KM acceptance stamp was the Eagle over the M. My question was - when did we change this mindset to then accept now the easily made swaz punch over the M punch?

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

My question was - when did we change this mindset to then accept now the easily made swaz punch over the M punch?

IMO the questioning should be both ways. Why should we disregard that stamp because it is not widely reported as original? Do we still believe everything was/is in so called reference books? Even in period documents there is almost always only drawings and or just text to explain guidelines. Up to the maker/distributor to adjust. Is it really a fake stamp? Guido's input with his buckle is a good example about this. If I look carefully at the same stamp shown in this thread, I noticed the same order (in case it was two stamps) : first the M then the swastika over it. So, in such case (two punches), there will be only one faker stamping all those tabs in the exact same order? But in none of the pictures I can see any remain of the top ring of the M. So it should be one stamp not two and at that point, we will be facing one smart faker getting genuine buckles and adding his stamp in an attempt to increase price? If nobody knows the reason/meaning of this particular stamp, why he should want to increase the overall value to begin with?

[KC1]

The questionable buckle is also a from well-known KM supplier.
But talking about prices makes no sense in this context. I also never understood how such a small stamp multiplied the value. But who sets the value? Why is a 5 to 10 times price charged for a green or web tabbed Luftwaffe buckle? The item is always worth as much as the buyer is willing to spend.

Like I said, I have no issues with the seller - only the stamp on the leather.

About the pricing - the mere connotation of it being a Kriegsmarine buckle always drives the price upward, however, this was solely based on it being a "gold" KM buckle. And that is understandable bc the supply and demand of the "gold" KM buckle vs the typical Heer buckle. But you are absolutely correct that an item is only worth what someone is willing to pay.

[KC1]

IMO the questioning should be both ways. Why should we disregard that stamp because it is not widely reported as original? Do we still believe everything was/is in so called reference books? Even in period documents there is almost always only drawings and or just text to explain guidelines. Up to the maker/distributor to adjust. Is it really a fake stamp? Guido's input with his buckle is a good example about this. If I look carefully at the same stamp shown in this thread, I noticed the same order (in case it was two stamps) : first the M then the swastika over it. So, in such case (two punches), there will be only one faker stamping all those tabs in the exact same order? But in none of the pictures I can see any remain of the top ring of the M. So it should be one stamp not two and at that point, we will be facing one smart faker getting genuine buckles and adding his stamp in an attempt to increase price? If nobody knows the reason/meaning of this particular stamp, why he should want to increase the overall value to begin with?

Very true - You are correct JP that it is a single leather punch making this mark. Again, and perhaps it is just me, but when the KM acceptance stamp is void of the eagle then I have concerns. I can agree with acceptance stamp version shown by Scott's link over the stamps without the eagle. If I recall, 20 years ago I never saw this mark until 2010 (+/- a year) when Emmanuel or Ivan first showed their buckle with this stamp. The Buckle books by all authors show KM/Coastal Arty buckles with eagle over the M but none without the eagle.


I will not belabor this argument as everyone has provided good talking points which is greatly appreciated and respected. As Guido has stated, we all have to determine what we like within our collections and be satisfied with the choices made.

Thanks for everyone's input.

[glaser]

I am not a buckle collector so I won't comment any of those here presented, but I do collect Kriegsmarine and "the swas over M in eight" is no bogus but unquestionably an original stamp, found on many different KM items, on leather as well as on metal parts.

[Ric Ferrari]

I am not a buckle collector so I won't comment any of those here presented, but I do collect Kriegsmarine and "the swas over M in eight" is no bogus but unquestionably an original stamp, found on many different KM items, on leather as well as on metal parts.

Thank you for contribution.

Any chance to see some of mentioned KM items ?

It would help a lot the discussion raised around "swas over M in eight" acceptance marking.

Thank in advance

Ric

[Edelweisse]

Here's an example...Awhile back, I bought a KM flag...and it had a different acceptance stamp (i.e. figure 8 with "M" and Swastika)….vs. Eagle w/"M"

I learned something about this KM acceptance stamp

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=930138

I'm sure that there are many more..

[glaser]

example of "swas over M in eight" on K98 ammo pouch

[ATTACH]4672677[/ATTACH]

[KC1]

I am not a buckle collector so I won't comment any of those here presented, but I do collect Kriegsmarine and "the swas over M in eight" is no bogus but unquestionably an original stamp, found on many different KM items, on leather as well as on metal parts.

Glaser - Truly appreciate your contributions. Do you have any "swas over M in eight" and dated pieces. I ask this as it may help in identifying when this stamp came into existence. In the link provided my Edelweisse, OldFlags says the stamp is a late war stamp; might you have any idea as to when this stamp started making its appearance?

[KC1]

Here's an example...Awhile back, I bought a KM flag...and it had a different acceptance stamp (i.e. figure 8 with "M" and Swastika)….vs. Eagle w/"M"

I learned something about this KM acceptance stamp

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=930138

I'm sure that there are many more..

Thank you for the contribution - very interesting link.

[klr]

The pebbled buckle is 39 dated so that wouldn’t be late war. It is nice to have a nice long thread with lots of input.


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