Discussion needed re: this eStand buckle

[KC1]

Hello All,

I have been seeing a lot of supposed "Coastal Arty" buckles popping up of late with the KM stamp on the the leather tab. Most of them I discount like this very used Heer buckle on estand with a definite bogus stamp on the leather. User has 8 posts.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru....php?t=1046254

[Guido L.]

What bothers you in detail, Dan?
In general, this type of KM acceptance stamp is not unknown.

[KC1]

Hi Guido -

Hope all is well with you and yours.

In all my years I have never been keen to this stamp - no eagle and the circle around the "M" - even the swas is a half hearted attempt so in my eyes this is a bogus stamp and done to generate higher sale price.

This is the only accepted stamp I am comfortable with and unless someone can provide KM regulations that can validate there were other acceptable stamps then I stand by my word. I am showing a comparison of the estand KM stamp and the authorized, by regulation, stamp.

[ivanjoaquin]

It is a know KM acceptance marking and agreed as original
From my collection:

IMG_4327.jpg

[KC1]

Ivan,

Not discounting your thoughts on this and your belief that it is original because it is in your collection, however, I will stay in the camp that there were not multiple stamps coming out of the Kriegsmarine Clothing Depots. You have to agree that being able to make this specific mark is very amateurish and is something that could be easily faked.

I do have a question for you, when you say "agreed as original", whom are you speaking of as to the agreement? Members here on the WAF, other forums or is there a document/regulation stating that various stamps can be used?

Again, this is my opinion.

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

I do have a question for you, when you say "agreed as original", whom are you speaking of as to the agreement? Members here on the WAF, other forums or is there a document/regulation stating that various stamps can be used?

This is an EXCELLENT question any collector of Third Reich memorabilia (or any collectible historical artifact should I include) MUST ask himself!!

Congratulations Dan!

[Willi Z.]

I have concerns with that marking as well. I have never seen such a marking on any of the KM leather field gear (lightweight Y-straps, K98 pouches, bayonet frogs, etc), binoculars, etc.

I have plenty of buckle tabs with a "LBA", for example, which exhibit the exact same wear and aging seen on the maker mark and date. Both examples on the thread, IMO (while close-ups would be better) do not have matching wear and age.

[klr]

Discussion needed re: this eStand buckle

I have only seen the mark on known KM buckle makers so far. I bought a RS&S flat back Luftwaffe a few years ago. When I checked out the belt I found a small 8 and with a loop you could make out the swastika and the M. Only belt I have ever seen it on but it would be easy to miss. It would be the easiest mark to fake but I do believe it is a original marking.IMG_6560.jpg


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[Willi Z.]

Interesting. Any other markings? Have you had it a long time?

The buckle on the E-Stand is about 5 times the cost of the same buckle as a Heer example. That is a concern.

[Ric Ferrari]

Like Kirby, I noticed this KM stamp only on buckles produced by well known KM suppliers.

This kind of stamp is very easy to reproduce, but in spite of this I only noticed repro of the better known KM stamping.

That said I have no documents to prove this marking being period.

Ric

[klr]

Belt is stamped 100 under the adjustment strap and the Catch has the the double J mark of JJ Stahl. Just a nice quality belt.

There was a KM marked buckle at the 19 SOS. It was near mint with a black tab with a large size deeply stamped Eagle M. The stamp was well positioned on the front of the tab. I forget the maker but it wasn't n my list of KM makers. The stamp was to perfect and made me not want the buckle.


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[ivanjoaquin]

Large amounts of German documentation have been lost, possibly forever, but this does not mean that things that are not documented are fake , the experience of advanced collectors and the safe knowledge of the origin of the piece can ensure to some extent that the piece in question is original

It is unthinkable for counterfeiters to invent a new brand if they being able to fake existing ones even if they are more complicated

As Ric says I’ve never seen these marks on fake buckles and always on KM suppliers

And IMO the KM stamps of this thread buckles matched perfectly

Another two examples of this stamp:

D053ED02-5014-4B43-8057-65C44EBA757C.jpg

[ivanjoaquin]

[ATTACH]4669693[/ATTACH]

[Mac 66]

You also come across KM & coastal artillery buckle tabs & belts with this stick eagle stamp, see link:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...stamped+buckle

[Guido L.]

Hi Guido -

Hope all is well with you and yours.

Tankyou for asking, Dan, all is fine here and I hope also on your side.


Basically, there is always the danger that after many years of collecting certain things will no longer be questioned, so it is a good thing to discuss about this stamp.

If no evidence is available in the form of written documents, one can only draw conclusions from his observations. My personal observations are similar to those of Ric and Ivan:
- I have only observed this stamp on original buckles and straps and never on a copy.
- All manufacturers were well-known suppliers for the KM.
- I have observed different wearing Levels of this stamp.
On the basis of these observations, I personally decided that these stamps were applied in a contemporary way.
Finally, I will show another example of this stamp type. He is located on a totally destroyed buckle, so I suspect he was not put on the tab to increase the value.