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**feind-hort-mit** · 08-12-2018, 04:59 PM

It's in the detail.

Apologies for the glossy finish, it was an anti corrosion red oxide that I'd not used before, l have since matt lacquered it.
Here then the restored exhaust flapper, it took me three months on and off to gently carve away the rock hard material inside the hinge, it looked like re-set concrete, and there was a piece of steel between the hinge side and the pivoting arm.
I am extremely pleased that I managed to get it working again, at times I almost gave up.
My only regret..that there was a second one, you can see it underneath mine, I didn't notice it until it was too late and it had been sold .. a matching pair

I'll just show the main pictures first, hope that you can see the ridiculous amount of work it took to manufacture.

[IMG]<a href="https://ibb.co/nbu2fp"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/hDYHD9/small_DSC_3901.jpg" alt="small_DSC_3901" border="0"></a>[/IMG]

[IMG]<a href="https://ibb.co/mTydLp"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/cxyOmU/small_DSC_3902.jpg" alt="small_DSC_3902" border="0"></a>[/IMG]

[IMG]<a href="https://imgbb.com/"><img src="https://image.ibb.co/mNxzRU/small_DSC_3904.jpg" alt="small_DSC_3904" border="0"></a>[/IMG]

[IMG]<a href="https://imgbb.com/"><img src="https://image.ibb.co/b7b9RU/small_DSC_3905.jpg" alt="small_DSC_3905" border="0"></a>[/IMG]

Flap open.
[IMG]<a href="https://ibb.co/gQcDLp"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/ihnr6U/small_DSC_3916.jpg" alt="small_DSC_3916" border="0"></a>[/IMG]

Flap closed.
[IMG]<a href="https://imgbb.com/"><img src="https://image.ibb.co/cxjcfp/small_DSC_3907.jpg" alt="small_DSC_3907" border="0"></a>[/IMG]

Locking pin and chain, open and locked down.
[IMG]<a href="https://ibb.co/hmwOLp"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/fDMq0p/small_DSC_3919.jpg" alt="small_DSC_3919" border="0"></a>[/IMG]

The special detail is to follow, hope that you enjoy the above.
Goodnight all, Ian "feind-hort-mit"

PS, The top "out of the ground" photo is not the same item shown here, it was found after this one.
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**nomis** · 08-13-2018, 05:46 AM

Very nice part.

Good piece.

The photos you attach are not from Tiger 1. They are from a Russian museum Sturmtiger, as this vehicle is definately the only known example that still retains this exhaust part.

Regards, S.

**feind-hort-mit** · 08-13-2018, 01:06 PM

Detail of flapper

I say Potato you say Tomato
You say Sturmtiger I say Tiger-1

You are quite right Nomis, I had the images saved and didn't check from whence they came

I don't know if any of you find this interesting, maybe modellers will see the detail that is not seen in these photos.
The amazing thing for me was the images you are going to see next, I hope that you find them interesting too.

First a teaser

[IMG]<a href="https://imgbb.com/"><img src="https://image.ibb.co/kM7SWU/small_DSC_3909.jpg" alt="small_DSC_3909" border="0"></a>[/IMG]

Can you see it

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**feind-hort-mit** · 08-13-2018, 01:57 PM

full details.

Show and tell time,
This is what appeared from under the earth and rust,
I couldn't believe my eyes,
I didn't think about the meaning of the three letters initially...

[IMG]<a href="https://ibb.co/bs7To9"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/g8UxgU/small_DSC_3910.jpg" alt="small_DSC_3910" border="0"></a>[/IMG]

..until I noticed underneath those same three letters.. dkr !.

[IMG]<a href="https://ibb.co/kwCuT9"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/cMx6ap/small_DSC_3912.jpg" alt="small_DSC_3912" border="0"></a>[/IMG]

I had a very rapid search though my copy of "Liste" OKH, Fertigungskennzeichen fur Waffen, Munition und Great,
the bible for collectors who want to know manufactures 3 letter codes.
I read, ....... dkr ........ Henschel & Sohn, G.m.b.h, Kassel.
How amazing, the dkr underneath also had a triangle proof / inspectors mark but
the number is unreadable, the upper flap lid has the square mark with 21.

[IMG]<a href="https://imgbb.com/"><img src="https://image.ibb.co/cRfRap/small_DSC_3908.jpg" alt="small_DSC_3908" border="0"></a>[/IMG]

I confess, I don't know what V&S stands for, any ideas would welcome.
I hope to show a few more interesting items from my little collection soon.
Thanks for reading, Ian "feind-hort-mit".

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**nomis** · 08-13-2018, 02:47 PM

Nice find

Apology, I was n't trying to niggle, it's just that I recently did some research into the 'seals' for a working engine.

As you obviously know, they are n't 'flappers' like on trucks/tractors/etc, but were one of those 'deep wading' features on the Tiger.
Normally the 'pin' fixed them open at 45/50 degrees, but in the event of a deep wading operation they would be pinned down flat to close the exhaust outlet.

Not quite sure what happened to all those exhaust gases pumped out under pressure ? Maybe there was still a small gap ?
Either way, how was the restricted exhaust not stifling the engine ?
They were never used in the field in the 'closed' position, only in a demonstration, apparently.

An easy explanation I'm, but it escapes me right now.

S.

**feind-hort-mit** · 08-13-2018, 03:52 PM

No problem with your previous comment

Yes, you are quite correct..open for normal driving, closed for submerged.
There was no sign of any rubber gasket or seal, or any way a seal would stay in place.
I don't know enough about the engine / exhaust to offer any thoughts on how it might work submerged

It's a shame that Bovingtons 131 is missing its original exhaust caps, happy to take measurements if they want to produce a pair of better ones

Thanks again for your comments, goodnight all..Ian "feind-hort-mit"
......

**Recymech** · 08-23-2018, 05:26 AM

Tiger Deep Wading Tube

Interesting conundrum - how do you stop the water getting into the exhaust system?
Should be ok whilst Engine is running - but if it stalls then water pressure and gravity would close the flaps

Not sure if these pictures help?
I know that they are to do with ventilation.

Kind regards,

Pete.

**nomis** · 08-23-2018, 02:14 PM

Mmmm

Not sure this is relevant to the issue.

My understanding is that the covers were not 'flappers', but were intended to be physically pinned open under normal road use and pinned shut under deep wading use.
They were never 'flappers' as we see on more modern vehicles. Flappers is a much perpetuated myth.

Correct me if I am wrong on this.

S.

**feind-hort-mit** · 08-23-2018, 03:08 PM

The two location holes in the arm rear, allow the hinged metal part..to be open or closed.
I use the word Flap / flapper purely as a description..not to indicate it flaps up and down !, it is a hinged flap..if the steel pin was left out on the chain..actually it would flap !, but I'm not suggesting this was ever done.

Hi Pete

I have another item from the exhaust / fan system, it's an inline valve..rod actuated to open or close it, I can see it on your drawings..open in the top..closed on the bottom.
It appears to control through air into the fan assembly / blades.
It will be a few days but I'll take a pic or two.
Kind regards..Ian "feind-hort-mit"
....

**Recymech** · 08-24-2018, 12:21 PM

Thanks for that Ian,

I will have a look through some of the Tiger Engine information that I have to see if there is anything about the Exhaust System, and in particular - The Flap Type Looking Flappers.

If I find anything I'll let you know.

Kind regards, Pete.

**nomis** · 08-25-2018, 01:38 AM

Interesting.

It would be interesting to know the intended method of engine exhaust venting under submerged conditions.

Cheers, S.

**Recymech** · 08-25-2018, 06:14 AM

Had a quick look through the Tiger Engine and Transmission Manual D 656/30 b&c ( Pz Kpfw Tiger - Aust. E - Instandsetzungsanleitung fur Panzerwarte - Motor und Triebwerk - Vom 1. 3. 44) but found nothing there

I am getting hold of 2 more manuals (Hull and Turret) shortly and will check out the Hull one for any info on the Flapper type Flaps.

Also looked though the Tiger Fiebel - again nothing of note there

This is probably the best option if someone can get hold of it:
D'656/23 Handbuch für den panzerfahrer Tiger

Will keep you posted.

Kind regards,

Pete.

**Recymech** · 08-25-2018, 06:52 AM

Hi nomis (S.) and All

"It would be interesting to know the intended method of engine exhaust venting under submerged conditions".

Would the Armoured Engine Bay Vent have a part to play

Kind Regards,

Pete.

**nomis** · 08-26-2018, 12:52 AM

Don't think so............

Hi.

As far as I know, these vents were also sealed for deep wading, but only to prevent the engine bay flooding and potentially causing the engine to fail.

I don't think there is any connection to 'exhaust gas venting'.

I'm sure the answer is 'obvious' and will kick myself when it becomes apparent.

S.

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