The law and possession of tanks

[Lampwick]

If a complete, intact Tiger tank were to be discovered concealed in a derelict barn in Belgium on land that had been in the finder's family for 400 years, what sort of claim of ownership would the finder have? Would the Authorities come snaffle it from him? Who could claim ownership as the Government that built and owned it no longer exist?

[me6_130]

That depends very much on local laws, as every country has thier own, moment when it was found and if there is an ownership document or not. Just after the WWII military vehicles in the different countries belonged to the local governments, either because they had built them or they were war booty. They would be repaired and put back in use or sold to third parties or sold as scrap (transfering their ownwership to private hands). If not found or recovered then, so not sold, they would depend on laws passed afterwards. Many are still considered national property.

Carles

[Simon H]

As the tank would still be fully functioning armoured vehicle the owner would have no claim to it and the Police, army would seize it from them. If they were lucky it would eventually go to a museum.

[me6_130]

Local authorities (town, county, region) could claim some rights and ask for that vehicle to be transfered to their "protection" and considered a local monument, as happens en many places. Now, I doubt the owners of the land can claim any right over it if they don't have any kind document to prove so. Local laws and other old documents should be studied in detail.

Carles

[Asbjoern]

Within Germany it would be state property as the German government is predecessor of the III Reich in legal way and beside this it would be seized because of it`s "Kriegswaffeneigenschaft" (Capability of beeing a weapon of war"; eg: not beeing demilitarized according to the aplicible law)... outside of Germany it could be - as said - very different....

Jens

[Panzer-G-man]

This coastal gun in Normandy is still intact.The story goes,after the war,that government workers were coming onto coastal property,removing the guns and cutting them up.One farmer simply said "get orf my land"and that was that.Hes kept the guns intact since.Maybe theres different private property laws in Belgium,but our tour guide reckons,thats all it took for the farmer to reatin them on his land.

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[spaltring]

tank

here in Belgium you are not allowed armoured body , they have to be demilitarized
cheers

[mannloon]

In the US we can own anything as long as it's demilled. A guy in Northern Wisconsin kept a fully functional T-34/85 in a barn for 20 years. Just recently the DEA stepped in and said we can't take it to reenactments anymore unless we have it deactivated by US standards.

I hope this story is somehow true...I've been waiting for a barn find Tiger.

[ian alderman]

If a complete, intact Tiger tank were to be discovered concealed in a derelict barn in Belgium on land that had been in the finder's family for 400 years, what sort of claim of ownership would the finder have? Would the Authorities come snaffle it from him? Who could claim ownership as the Government that built and owned it no longer exist?

I take it that this is a completely hypothetical question, or.............?

[earlymb]

The legal status in regards to ownership of the vehicle itself and the legal status regarding any weaponry on/in it are two separate matters altogether.

In some countries local law requires any armour to be demilled before a private citizen can own an armoured vehicle, but again this has nothing to with the demilling of any weapons that may be required too.

It would be easier for this (I presume) theoretical exercise to change the 'Tiger' to something softskinned & unarmed, like a Schwimmwagen that was never road registered. The Germans withdrew, the farmer inspected his land, finds a abandoned Schwimmwagen in a ditch (broken down, ran out of fuel, take your pick), drags it out and puts it in said barn for the next 70 years.

[me6_130]

I asked my local weapon authorities, sometime ago, about owing a tank, and the reply was: " as much as the gun is deactivated, no problem"


All goes in having a paper saying the tank is to land's owner's. If the family bought it in the 40's, even if in working condition, newer laws are not (usually) retroactive, so they could keep it.

When a kid, at school, I heard a story from another boy who was french. Someone in the area were his parents were from, in France, found a light recce vehicle in a barn. Seems germans, while retreating, run out of pertrol, so they exchanged it for a pig. The farmer put it in the barn and forgot about it. His grandson found it 30 years later, cleaned it, refueled and went out for a ride...Police stopped him and seized the vehicle... He had no papers Well, it is just a story another kid told me.


Carles

[Fe 26]

In the US we can own anything as long as it's demilled. A guy in Northern Wisconsin kept a fully functional T-34/85 in a barn for 20 years. Just recently the DEA stepped in and said we can't take it to reenactments anymore unless we have it deactivated by US standards.

I hope this story is somehow true...I've been waiting for a barn find Tiger.

Why not pull the gun and fit it with a fake?

[Uncle Goose]

There is in Belgium no law that forbids somebody to own a tank IF the gun is properly demilitarized by the official weapons test bank in Liege. And you can drive around with it as long as you do it on your own land. However, there should be no problem to get a license plate for it to be able to get it on the road as excavators and other tracked vehicles are required to have a license plate to work on the public grounds and can be registered as such. But I personally think they don't get many applications for this .

And I don't think anybody can claim it anymore, they would have to prove this with papers at the court and good luck with that after +70years. It's also past 30 years so all criminal charges of theft and such would be nullified as one cannot be convicted anymore for crimes that are older than 30 years in Belgium.

[james m]

I believe owning one here is perfectly legal as long as the guns have been demilled. There was a guy in Indiana years ago when I lived there who has a surplus Sherman that he used for razing old houses. Yep: He'd just drive right thru them. I always believed he went home every day with a big smile on his face.
Jim

[Remark116]

I believe owning one here is perfectly legal as long as the guns have been demilled. There was a guy in Indiana years ago when I lived there who has a surplus Sherman that he used for razing old houses. Yep: He'd just drive right thru them. I always believed he went home every day with a big smile on his face.
Jim

They are legal in the US with live guns if they are registered under the NFA. I have been in a few live gun tanks and tds in the US.