What type is this?

[i.spring]

Can anyone tell me what this is.
And were these used by polizi divisions at the end of the war?

Thanks.
Ian

[FJCM]

French Panhard Armored car?

French Panhard 178, captured and used by the Germans ias P(204)f
Used not only by the Police but also by the Army Panzerdivisionen in recon duties.
the one in your picture is the radio version

[Hans Rinsma]

What type is this?

Hi Ian, It is the "Panzerkraftwagen" Panhard.

This type started in 1935 as the standardvehicle in the French Army.
After the "Frankreichfeldzug" the German Wehrmacht used 200 of these Panhards and use many of these in the Panzer-Aufklärungsabteilungen from the 7. and 20. Panzer Division.
Till the end of the year 1941 , 109 of the Panhards were destroyed on the East Front, the other Panhards were used in the "Aufklärungs - and Sicherungs" units and also used in the Ordnungspolizei.
The Ordnungspolizei used 30 Panhards with the numbers RMdi 27163 till 27187.
Totall built in France 480 in the years 1935-1940.
Original name: Automitrailleuse de Devouverte Panhard 178.
In Germany known as Panzerspähwagen Panhard P 204 ( f ).
Weicht 8,3 Ton, Panzer 7-20 mm, Engine 4 Cylinder 105 Bhp.
2,5 cm Canon and 7,5 mm Machine-Gun .

Kind Regards Hans

[David Lehmann]

Hello,

I may add some points :

AMD PANHARD 178
The Panhard 178 is a 4x4 armored car which entered service with the French army shortly before WW2. The Panhard 178, nicknamed "pan-pan", was a very good and reliable armored car. It has proven a superior designed armored car in 1940. It had a 2-men APX3 turret (hand-cranked) with a Balland episcope and its 25mm SA35 gun had good AT capacities. The P178 which was capable of relative high speed and had two drivers, one forward and one backward, to change direction very quickly, increasing the overall maneuverability. There was an AAMG mount on the turret where the coaxial MG could be installed.
In the French army there was also a radio/command version, unarmed and with a casemate instead of a turret. It was equipped with an additional ER27 radio (200kg, 80-150km range).
Some Panhard 178 armored cars had a modified turret with a 47mm SA35 gun and a coaxial MG in late 1940 (Renault turret). The 47mm gun version participated to combats in June 1940 with at least one vehicle. A 47mm gun version was also produced undercover by Vichy but with a CDM turret. The other Vichy Panhard 178 armored cars, which were officialy allowed, were only armed with two turret MGs instead of the normal 25mm main gun and coaxial MG because of the restrictions imposed by the Germans. In 1942 the Germans captured some Panhard 178 CDM armored cars and used them like in Sicherungsabteilung 1000.
After the Liberation of France in 1944 production was resumed for use by the new French troops. The Panhard 178B is an improved version of the Panhard 178 ; it entered production after the Liberation of France in 1944. Its FL-1 turret mounted a 47mm gun. The Panhard 178B remained in use with the French forces into the 1960's. A few were for example also used by Djibouti and Syria. It is the ancestor of the well known Panhard EBR, Panhard AML-60 and Panhard AML-90.
Weight : 8.2t
Length : 4.79m
Width : 2.01m
Height : 2.31m
Crew : 4 men
Maximum armor : 26mm (turret and hull is RHA bolted armor)
Maximum speed : 72.6 km/h (Panhard ISK 4F II bis engine, 8 cylinders, gasoline, water cooled, 110hp)
Transmission : 4 forward, 4 reverse (dual drive)
Autonomy : 300 km
Armament :
- 1x 25mm SA35 L/60 (or L/47.2 ?) gun (elevation -12° to +15°) and a coaxial 7.5mm MAC1931 MG (elevation -12° to +15°, lateral +15°) (150 AP shells, 2250 standard cartridges (15 magazines) and 1500 armor piercing cartridges (10 magazines))
- 2x 7.5mm MAC1931 turret MGs (Vichy occupied zone version, later also used by the Germans)
- 1x 47mm SA35 L/32 gun and 1x 7.5mm MAC1931 coaxial MG from June 1940 and later (Renault and CDM turrets and later P178B)

Detailed armor thickness :
Turret Front : 26mm/24°
Turret Sides : 15mm/26°
Turret Rear : 15mm/30°
Turret Top : 7mm/82°
Hull Front : 20mm/21° and 0°
Hull Sides : 15-20mm/0°
Hull Rear : 15-20mm/41°
Hull Top : 7mm/90°
Hull Bottom : 7mm/90°

A testimony about the 6e Cuirassiers (Panhard P178) from the 1e DLM fighting in the Netherlands in May 1940 : On 11th May around 21h00, detachment Dudognon defended the Moergestel bridge over the Reusel river. At 23h00, 3 German armored cars accompanied by 3 side-cars and a truck appeared. The charges placed under the bridge exploded under the truck and many Germans died. Maréchal-des-logis (NCO rank) Gaulthier recalls ; "the leading 2 German armored cars do not see me and head for the Panhard 178 'La Varende'. The first German armored car crushes 2 of our side-cars and barely dodges the 'La Varende' (tearing off a mudguard on the way) and crashes into a cement pole. The second German armored car (an 8-wheeled Sd.Kfz.231) stops to my left and opens fire. Meanwhile the third German armored car turns out in front of me on the bridge. I open fire with the 25mm gun and I hit it square on. It rolls for several metres before stopping to my right. The bridge explodes at the same time. I was in the turret so the deflagration stunned me and I fell inside. When I recovered and went back to the hatch I saw the second German armored car still firing on my left. I pivoted the turret and fired point blank with both the main gun and MG (with AP bullets). It quickly ceased firing. The whole action only lasted a quarter of an hour. The enemy lost around 20 dead and drowned. The 6e Cuirrasiers detachment has captured 4 men including 2 wounded. The three German armored cars whose motors cannot be started are scuttled as well as a side-car. Two more intact BMW side-cars will replace the 2 that were crushed and we used them up to Dunkirk."

Panzerspähwagen 204(f) (AMD Panhard 178)
The Germans were not long to realize the usefulness in combat of the Panhard P178. They were immediately put back to service during the campaign of France with German crosses. About 190 P178 armored cars were used unmodified in 1941 with 107 lost in action on the Eastern front during following years. At the beginning of Barbarossa, beside Waffen-SS units such as "Totenkopf" or "Das Reich" and police units, the PSW-204(f) was mainly found in the 37th (7.PzD) and 92nd (20.PzD) armored reconnaissance battalions. 64 vehicles in the 37th (10 more than in theory) and 54 vehicles in the 92th with generally 18 radio variants. The Panhard 178 was the vehicle that went the closer to Moscow, they reached the terminal bus station.
In the secondary security tasks several exemplars were put on railway cars in armored trains (such as Panzerzug 25) to protect the lines. Later 43 were transformed in true "draisine", mostly to operate on rail-roads against partisans in the Balkans. After the invasion of the "Free Zone" in November 1942 more Panhard P178s had been captured, most of these were twin-MG variants. There were also an undetermined number of P178s fitted with the CDM turret (version with the 47mm SA35 gun) found in hidden depots. At least 2 were used in the Sicherung Aufklärungsabteilung 1000 (affiliated to 89.ID). They fought against partisans in Auvergne. The 1st Army for example still had 10 Panhard P178 on 30th December 1944 on the Western front.
Command Panhard P178s with a casemate instead of a turret and two radios were also captured in France, some kept their former role but most were given to PK (Propaganda Kompanie) units, often issued to war correspondents of the Waffen-SS ("Das Reich" and "Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler"). Armed with a MG34 and equipped with a German radio set, these vehicles were also equipped with cameras and sound recordings equipments.
During Summer 1943, several Panhard P178s were rearmed with a 5.0cm KwK L/42 gun installed in a superstructure unarmored to the rear. A few Panhard P178s were rearmed with a 5.0cm KwK L/60 gun but fitted with the muzzle brake from a Pak38.
There was also a certain number of turretless command cars (maybe former French armored cars sent to the front in June 1940 without turret and only armed with a FM 24/29 or a MG behind a makeshift shield). There is a model with an aircraft modified turret armed with a MG81 which served for the protection of the Luftwaffe column 143. The Italians used also 2 Panhard P178s captured in November 1942 when the Germans seized Southern France, they could be found in the 224th coastal division.

Regards,

David