German Heavy Tanks.

[leeb]

Hi Guys.
After reading unit histories etc.of Tiger 1, Tiger 2, Ferdinand / Elephant and Jagdtigers, does any think these vehicles were a liability or useful?
When considering the production difficulties, breakdowns, size and weight and lack of spares, were they worth the cost and effort?
Wouldn't several thousand more mark IV's have been more effective?
Once the Panther / Jagdpanther was available, wouldn't it have been better to concentrate on these?

What's your view?
PS. I do love these monsters though.

[Wilhelm]

That was one drawback to the German way of doing things. They were such good scientists and builders they always wanted to improve everything. The Soviets cranked out 40,000 T34s or so.

[JanC]

It was a mistake to "only" invest in the new heavy tanks. They were way to complex for the time and they were underpowered. They had their advantages because of their heavy armor and big gun. Germany had to develop all new vehicles in a very short time and with a lack of raw materials.
Don't forget that in meantime German factories were under constant bombing. There was no time to put all of these vehicles to the real test.

For every new requirement different contractors offered their vehicle (Henschel and Porsche for the Tiger for example). The contractors were forward looking and already started the production of some chassis because they were convinced they were going to win the competition. Henschel won the competition and so Porsche had already produced 50+ chassis which were converted to Ferdinand and Elefant. Everyone had to get his bit even in wartime...

Hitler's mindset was the principle of "the bigger the better". But the bigger the tank the less mobile and less flexible it becomes.

I think with much more Panther and Tiger 1 (kill ratio 1 to 7) tanks and air superiority they would have got a greater chance to win the war.

As you say they had/have great scientists. After the war they produced the Leopard 1 with all the knowledge they had from ww2. If you take a look at these days the new PUMA IFV was designed and produced in 4 years which is very fast...And it is the best in the world

[r_hufschmied]

The question sort of answers itself. The Nazi War machine would have benefited greatly from more of better needed tanks and armored vehicles. You can see this as the war progresses when the greater need starts to outweigh the propaganda (read "macho") needs; Stug III and IV development, Hetzer, Jagdpanzer, Kätchen to name some. On the other hand, the greater the need the grander the scheme, Maus, Löwe and the megalomaniac Landcreuzer to name the worst.

The strategic mistakes go back as early as the 30's when rearmament started. An early focus on the inherent benefits of Diesel engines for the armored vehicles would have eased up on the logistical nightmare the Benzin supply lines became the longer the front stretched. Enormous amounts of captured Soviet Army Diesel fuel were almost completely of no use to the Panzer units with their high performance petrol engines.

The interleaved wheel design, while a fantastic feat of engineering and with a weight distribution and smooth ride second to none it was a maintenance disaster.

The list goes on, where complexity and size go before simplicity and adaptability almost every time on all levels and fields of development.

I can go on about this in length and detail

[armenjs802]

It was a mistake to "only" invest in the new heavy tanks. They were way to complex for the time and they were underpowered. They had their advantages because of their heavy armor and big gun. Germany had to develop all new vehicles in a very short time and with a lack of raw materials.
Don't forget that in meantime German factories were under constant bombing. There was no time to put all of these vehicles to the real test.

For every new requirement different contractors offered their vehicle (Henschel and Porsche for the Tiger for example). The contractors were forward looking and already started the production of some chassis because they were convinced they were going to win the competition. Henschel won the competition and so Porsche had already produced 50+ chassis which were converted to Ferdinand and Elefant. Everyone had to get his bit even in wartime...

Hitler's mindset was the principle of "the bigger the better". But the bigger the tank the less mobile and less flexible it becomes.

I think with much more Panther and Tiger 1 (kill ratio 1 to 7) tanks and air superiority they would have got a greater chance to win the war.

As you say they had/have great scientists. After the war they produced the Leopard 1 with all the knowledge they had from ww2. If you take a look at these days the new PUMA IFV was designed and produced in 4 years which is very fast...And it is the best in the world

too much in short time. that was the issue.


I found this:

This is one of the few ones that is done well. Audio and footage are well thought off. You may not like the music but the video is well done.

[armenjs802]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmVCoTfsL7c

[JanC]

Nice footage :-)
There is one Tiger 1 copy in the movie.
The Tiger 2 batallion on the move is so impressive.

[armenjs802]

Portrait of panzer ace Generalmajor Franz Bäke (1898 - 1978) in Autumn, 1943.