Destroying Kiev

[arnhem1944]

There is a claim that says Russian Army had put millions of mines into the Kiev just before the Germans came. After Germans came Kiev,they had lots of casualties because of the mines or radio-operated mines. After that events Hitler abandoned the idea of taking the Leningrad. He was afraid of the mines in Kiev and he was thinking Leingrad could be mined too like Kiev.So he decided to encircle the Leningrad.
Do you think it can be a reason for encircling the Kiev?

[DennisJMW]

There is a claim that says Russian Army had put millions of mines into the Kiev just before the Germans came. After Germans came Kiev,they had lots of casualties because of the mines or radio-operated mines. After that events Hitler abandoned the idea of taking the Leningrad. He was afraid of the mines in Kiev and he was thinking Leingrad could be mined too like Kiev.So he decided to encircle the Leningrad.
Do you think it can be a reason for encircling the Kiev?

I see no logic in that claim. Kiev was encircled because that took advantage of Germany's strength, the ability to outmaneuver the Soviets at least at that time. The German's did not have time to engage in house to house combat in a major city if they wished to meet their goals for the '41. Their maneuver elements, armor, were entirely unsuited for this type of combat as well (see Stalingrad).

Hitler's grandiose pipe-dream to encircle Leningrad and bomb/starve its entire population and structure to destruction had nothing to do with Kiev. Just another failed fantasy from someone who bit off more than he could chew.
Regards,
Dennis

[arnhem1944]

You may be right but in 1944, just before Allies capture Paris, Hitler ordered Himmler to put mines into Paris and wanted him to prepare traps for Americans.(Like he saw in Kiev).Himmler sad ok and appointed von Choltitz to make this work by using Jutland and Estland SS Divisions but von Choltitz disobeyed this order and surrendered the Allied forces. What do you think about this

[arnhem1944]

But there is another claim says Hitler ordered von Leeb and Harry Hoppe's tactical groups to stop at the outskirts of Leningrad.He was afraid of making a house to house combat because of the casualties in Warsaw.
Is that right?

[DennisJMW]

Again, Hitler did order the destruction of Paris, but revenge, bitterness and frustration were the primary motivations of his little twisted mind. As to the statement comparing Warsaw casualties to Leningrad; I never saw that one but IIRC there was little house to house fighting in the Polish capital during the '39 invasion.

Hitler didn't shrink from urban combat, see Stalingrad and Warsaw during the uprising, but the issue of Kiev revolves around the best and especially fastest way to accomplish objectives during '41, not a desire to avoid casualties in urban combat. I'd venture to say that if the Germans had invested Moscow in '41 they would not have hesitated to fight house to house there.

Regards,
Dennis

[Vadim K]

He was afraid of the mines in Kiev and he was thinking Leingrad could be mined too like Kiev.So he decided to encircle the Leningrad.

While the official "Leningrad Order" was issued on September 28, nine days after Germans entered Kiev, there is an entry in Halder's diary from the beginning of August, stating that Hitler wants to destroy Leningrad in order to avoid the liability of feeding its inhabitants in case the city surrenders.

And if anyone claims that Leningrad siege had anything at all to do with Hitler's fear of urban warfare and high losses, I would be very interested in hearing them explain the following highlighted parts of the Leningrad Order to Army Group North:

Subject: Sealing off the city of Leningrad

To

Army Group North

According to directives of the Supreme Command the following is ordered:
1.) The city of

Leningrad is to be sealed of by a ring to be taken as close as possible to the city in order to save forces. A capitulation is not to be required.
2.) In order to achieve that the city as center of the last great Red resistance on the Baltic is eliminated as soon as possible without greater sacrifices in blood of our own being brought, the city is not to be attacked by infantry. It is to be deprived of its life and defense capacity by crushing the enemy air defense and fighter planes and destroying waterworks, stores and sources of light and power. The military installations and defense forces of the enemy are to be crushed by fire and bombardment. Any move by the civilian population in the direction of the encircling troops is to be prevented – if necessary by force of arms.
3.) Liaison Staff North will require the Finnish high command to provide for the Finnish troops advancing in the Karelian isthmus taking over the encirclement from the north and north-east in connection with the German troops advancing over the Neva and the encirclement itself being carried out according to the above criteria.

Immediate contact between Army Group North and Liaison Staff North for regulation of details will be ordered by Army Supreme Command in due time.

By order

signed Halder

[Dallas]

Regards mines, Rzhev was extensively mined by the Germans when they withdrew as a part of Operation Buffalo in 1943. Many Soviet casualties resulted from this and the occupation was successfully delayed.

[Laurence Strong]

I have read in books, that the Soviets mined Kiev with mines, both plain and ones on a timer. From what i read they did cause damage and harm to the Germans after they occupied the city. Is it true.....

[Aave Johns]

Mines in Paris

With regards to Paris it's major sites and historical buildings were rigged with explosives, including the Eiffel Tower. That would have been impressive to watch come down !! When the FFI and the Allies started fighting for the city, von Cholitz decided that it would be more honorable to surrender the city undamaged and go into captivity, than it would be to go down in history as the officer responsible for the destruction of Paris. Hitler as usual went into one of his rages when the city capitulated and demanded of Jodl "Is Paris burning?". A film of the same name was made in the 60's and a book released. If you can get a copy of the book go for it, I highly recommened it. Von Cholitz was chosen by Hitler because of his record at Sebastipol in the Crimea in 1942.

Regards
Johnsy