Tiger numbers

[Eabe]

I have a question about german tiger tanks and the number on the turrets
Are these numbers used fore just 1 tiger our more?
I have bought a picture of a tiger with turretnumber 233. On the internet i found another photo of a tiger 1 with turretnumber 233. Is it than the same tiger our not?

If you got a turretnumber is it than possible to identify the crew of a tiger?

Thanks

[Panzerbasics]

There were quite a few Abteilungen that used a numbering system containing 233. These were often relocated and re-equipped during the war.
Not counting replacement Tigers, a quick estimate would be that there should have been at least a dozen different 233's.
Check this site:
http://www.tiif.de/
See if you can locate your picture to match a unit. Good chance they have it.

/Rob

[Tim O'Keefe]

Hello

The #233 designates it as the third Pz in the third platoon, of the second Company. First # company, 2nd # platoon, 3rd # tank within the platoon.
So the #233 is a rather common # to find on a a German AFV. Every Pz Bn would have an Pz #233 just about... hope this helps.

[Eabe]

Thanks fore the answers.
So i could only identify a tiger if i could find a division emblem on the photo?

[Panzerbasics]

No, the way the numbers were applied to the Tigers varied and are often enough to positively identify the specific Tiger and unit.
Can you post your picture here?

/Rob

[Eabe]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

This is the photo i bought of a Tiger 1 with turret number.

[Eabe]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Eabe]

I also bought a original negative of a Tiger 1 with turret number:

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[nomis]

Tiger 1 identification

Tiger had one number stamped inside and outside of the hull front plates and a different number inside and outside the turret roof plates. These were put on by each manufacturer and then the assembly plant painted and put a VIN plate with different number inside the hull.

Does anyone know how/where to find records of the relevant numbers which identify each hull/turret of each tiger. And no, they were not 'part' numbers.

I understand part of the assembly plant had a fire some years ago, but no idea what ,if any records were destroyed.

Have found Bundesarchive researchers most unhelpful.

I believe the assembly plant/company was taken over in early 2000's and is now Mercedes. They too have been most unhelpful.

Regards,

SF.

[PresidentEvil]

You can also try Panzer-Archiv.de they have a file on each German tank of the war.

[Panzerbasics]

Pictures and Serials

Eabe:
11 more sPzAbt.503-233 pictures here (233, about halfway down the page):
http://www.tiif.de/thread.php?threadid=20&sid=

III./PR.GD-B24, 2 known pictures here:
http://www.tiif.de/thread.php?threadid=98&sid=

Nomis:
I trust you mean the chassis or in German "Fahrgestell" serial numbers of the tanks. More about the location of these numbers on the tanks here on my site:
http://www.panzerbasics.com/index_fi...ta/serials.htm
The late Ron klages made a booklet called Trail of the Tigers which seems to have what you are looking for. He found most of the data for his book in TIC 1 and 2 (Tigers in combat by Wolfgang Schneider)
Searching for these numbers in the archives will at least be very time consuming

/Rob

[Eabe]

Panzerbasics thank you fore the links,

The negative i bought is also 1 of the know photos of the B24 Tiger 1.

[nomis]

Tiger numbers

Panzerbasics.

Thanks for reply. Ron's book does not contain the bare hull and turret numbers and i am trying to link these to the VIN plate recognition number.

Have done a lot of reading on Tiger and none that i have seen even attempts to identify/link the three numbers per T1 [ bare hull,bare turret, completed tank before unit allocation] .

External turret number painted on would be a fourth , unit applied, number. This ignores all the usual part numbers which are not what i seek.

I wanted to commision research at Bundesarchives, but found potential costs prohibitive and achieved no results with limited time spent. This despite the person concerned telling me they new where to find this info.

My question was by way of seeing if anyone has had the same idea and taken it further, even if only finding a few. I would love to be able to do the research in Germany myself, but sadly this is not an option.

SF.

[Panzerbasics]

Nomis:
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Despite what that researcher told you, I doubt whether the info you want still exists.
I know only of the few known numbers on surviving vehicles.
If existing, the data could be interesting regarding modifications timeline, but could rapidly become very complex.

/Rob

[nomis]

Tiger numbers

Panzerbasics,

The researcher i mention [ and there were others ] is apparently a well known, well respected researcher and informed me he had previously done the same for Panther [ panzer V ].

I have yet to establish beyond doubt wether the info was collected by anyone, but on the basis the PV had this available, one draws the conclusion it was originally retained by someone, presumably the 'assembly' plant.

I am also curious to know why the turret and hull were given these numbers. Numbers would identify the pieces concerned , but for what purpose. These numbers were/are separate from 'part' numbers, so why stamp them into the metal and cover them over.

In the knowledge the Germans were well known for their record keeping, there would have been a reason for numbering turret/hull/whole tank, and there seem to be records remaining for armoured vehicles ,i find it, like with many other things with this interest, very frustrating. I would expect to find part records even if a majority have been destroyed over the years.

There seems to be a 'block' on certain aspects and i say this only as there is a 'dead-stop', rather than an exchange of information/opinion leading to a trail going cold.

I have tried to get information, tried to generate some interest and at every turn the shutters seem to drop. I find it hard to believe ,with the interest WW2 german armour generates that no-one knows anything, even if its to suggest possible alternative research options.

Anyway, i have exhausted the possibilities i can think of and as i am unable to dedicate the time to researching myself, even if i new where to and was permitted, i guess this is going to remain unresolved, even in part.

Regards, SF.