Another Restored Panther

[Ken MacLean]

Fresh out of the Tank Shop at Canadian War Museum, Ottawa.

<a href="http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f133/beaverpass/?action=view&current=100_1951.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f133/beaverpass/100_1951.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f133/beaverpass/?action=view&current=100_1953.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f133/beaverpass/100_1953.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[SurvivingPanzer]

Nice pics. Anymore?

Any inof on the history of the Panther?

[Lennard]

&quot;Restored&quot; Panther

hi,
Very nice to see a tidied up vehicle, but surely it not a restoration, I belive "restoration" is when ALL parts are fully refurbished, ALL missing parts found and added and a vehicle TOTALLY brought back to its full "as manufactured" specification. Much like, Littlefield, Wheatcroft and Gibb do. Which of course takes years and multi-thousand dollars and I am sure its not what has happened here in the few months mentioned.

To explain such a word as Restoration, I have just completed a simple VW Schwimmwagen vehicle, 1000 hours over a four year period, slow I may be but there you go, figure out the cost for yourself !!.

Of course it looks a lot better than it has in previous years, but why is it not painted in its original as captured configuration ? or any of the recognisable Panzer Div configurations associated with the Canadian sector of Normandy.

Anyway a good "tidy up", does it have an engine in it ? it seems to be sitting too high on its suspension.

lennard

[behblc]

Good point Leonard, she looks a bit high at the back end, but much better inside than stuck out in the elements.

Could you post up a few jpegs of your own project - any man who brings an old WW2 vehicle back from the dead gets my vote of thanks - would love to see something of you VWSG.

[Ken MacLean]

Right you are Lennard, not "restored", and I stand corrected.

I believe the museological terms for artefacts here in Canada define a "Museum Piece" as an artefact that is fully intact to original specs and capable of performing it's originally intended function. Jump into a "museum piece" Panther and drive it away, all guns firing.

A "Display Piece" on the other hand can be an empty shell, such as this Panther.

The Canadian War Museum also made the same error in its recent press release regarding the Panther.

http://www.civilization.ca/media/show_pr_e.asp?ID=1236

Note that this tank, presumably then a runner, participated in the VE Day celebrations in Ottawa on 8 May 1945. It later found its way to Camp Borden, Ontario where it was displayed outside for 60+ years.

[rkoy]

its still a nice looking tank.......glad they did it and got it out of the weather

[the shadock]

I hope that they will do the same with the rare Wirbelwind that stays outside at Borden Camp (the military base from where comes the Panther)..

P-O

[SurvivingPanzer]

There are many, many Panthers left, I think that this degree of preservation is great as it perserves the vehicle and in essence prevents it from further decay outside. In the interum I can think of several other tanks I would rather see running... Jagdtiger.JAgdtiger.Jagdtiger.

[Lennard]

Canadian Panther

Hi Ken,
Above all else its good to see it receiving attention which therefore means preservation, the article you gave the address for does sum up the situation well. Thanks.

Regarding the Panther's original unit, I was always in the firm belief (probably wrong) that it was that well photographed Panther with tactical no. 424 of the 2nd Pz Div captured south of Caen at sometime, the photo(s) of 424 are often credited to Canadian soldiers. I take it tha this is not the case ?

cheers lennard

[r_hufschmied]

I hope that they will do the same with the rare Wirbelwind that stays outside at Borden Camp (the military base from where comes the Panther)..

P-O

Indeed, one of two left in the world. it's a CRIME that the Wirbel is still left OUTSIDE at Borden!!!

[panzer ace]

There are many, many Panthers left, I think that this degree of preservation is great as it perserves the vehicle and in essence prevents it from further decay outside. In the interum I can think of several other tanks I would rather see running... Jagdtiger.JAgdtiger.Jagdtiger.

yea the idiots over at aberdeen proving grounds could use some . aswell as the elphant that sits outside

[r_hufschmied]

yea the idiots over at aberdeen proving grounds could use some . aswell as the elphant that sits outside

APG doesn't get (have never had) the funding they deserve, the staff does magic with the tuppence they get. The APG collection is in many, many objects unique and it's about time it should be recognized as such!

[Moggy055]

With regards to the tactical number originally assigned to the CWM Panther, a chance photo of the tank was obtained showing it in it's original markings on VE day in Ottawa.

While the last numeral on the side of the turret is difficult to distinguish on the photo, it is believed the number is 345. The number is repeated on the mantlet as well which has provided additional indication that the last numeral is 5.

It was a lot of work to bring the Panther back up to a presentable standard all the while trying desperately to maintain as much of the originality as possible.

A fine line must be taken between a restoration and preservation. You generally cannot restore AND preserve. While a lot of new pieces could have been made and a lot of new paint could have been added (to the interior specifically), the aim is to preserve the Panther in as an original state as possible while still managing to make it "display worthy". Hopefully in years to come, people will be able to see what original material was used on a particular component, and what shade of white/beige was used in the interior (it's not as white as you might think!)

A restoration.....no, a preservation....yes.

Enjoy.

[Lennard]

panther

Hello Moggy055,

The markings you have described for this Panther, that is, small numbers on the side of the mantlet with the same number repeated larger on the turret side are classic SS Pz Regt 1 for Normandy, seen in many photo of their Panthers from Companies 1, 2, 3 and 4.

There was no other Panther unit in Normandy whose tactical numbering is anything like them.

The numbers on the mantlet side would be black only and very much "hand-painted", whist the numbers on the turret side were also crudely done but larger and two colours (solid with an outline).

Along with these number locations, SS Pz Regt 1 usually also had two sets of track links hung on the forward sides of the turret (like you have) and usually obscuring the turret side numbers. I can see in some of the earlier Bordon photos that there are no track hangers on the turret side, had they been removed and were there traces left of their existance not noticible in a photo ? but nevertheless are correct for this unit.

One of the the Aberdeen Panthers is also SS Pz Regt 1, number 328, photos of it on APG early post war show all the above mentioned points very clearly.

So there you have it, SS Pz Rgt 1 of the 1st SS Panzer Division LAH is certainly a unit that the Canadian forces met south and east of Caen many a time.

(If I could figure out how to add photos I would, ............ but !!! however I am sure others are more adept and will help here)

regards lennard

[Moggy055]

You are spot on with your description of the numbering depicted on the VE day picture of the Panther. It's difficult to tell from the photo if the turret numerals were outlined, as I suspect the track sections chaffed against the turret thereby partially wearing away some of the paint/zimmerit. The mantlet numerals were black and definitely quickly painted by hand.

The track hangars, as you rightly point out, were not in place while the Panther was in Borden, however, remnants of the welding that held them in place was still there which allowed us to verify that it was accurate to re-install them. The subsequent photograph further confirmed their existance.

If there exists any wartime photos of this particular Panther, I'm certain the CWM would be delighted to obtain copies, even if electronic in nature.

I will check to see if there are official objections to posting the VE day photo, and if given the green light, will attempt to post said photo. I may require some assistance with that task when the time comes.