Panzer Wrap --- Opinions

[Glenn McInnes]

Thanks everyone for their replies,
Question on insignia, ...is it looks ok on this wrap?
...did the Janke and other similar faker-makers used original insignia?
... from what did Janke copied their design ?

Eagle is original,can't say for certain on the Russia braid tabs,shape of tabs look wrong.I don't think this jacket is a Janke product.

Here is a similar factory sewn tab on an original Pz wrap if you want to compare.



Glenn

[AlikN]

Is the high number of reinforcement lines at the collar bad sign just on panzer wraps or on all tunics?

[phild]

Is the high number of reinforcement lines at the collar bad sign just on panzer wraps or on all tunics?

I never like to say never but I have only encountered this degree of over kill in the stitching rows on fake PZ wraps. It could happen on original uniforms I guess, especially custom made items like officer greatcoats.

The problems with this wrap go way beyond the number of stitch rows.

As to the question above regarding what was used to pattern this wrap I would say another wrap. Maybe an original or another fake.

[B. N. Singer]

I never like to say never but I have only encountered this degree of over kill in the stitching rows on fake PZ wraps. It could happen on original uniforms I guess, especially custom made items like officer greatcoats.

The example in this thread does appear exaggerated. However, despite it seeming to be an atypical manufacturing technique for production wraparounds, if one is to use the feature of prolific collar stitching as a primary consideration for basing a negative assessment, an error might be the result.

Could I request a member's assistance with photograph posting?

B. N. Singer

[Adrian Stevenson]

Posted for Bryon.

Cheers, Ade.

[B. N. Singer]

Possibly not the best illustration but somewhat to my point.

Thank you Ade, much obliged.

Bryon

[Glenn McInnes]

Hi Bryon,

I think what Phil is referring to is the exaggerated number of horizontal stitch lines (I count about 30+ rows which is about triple the lines to your example and seems way over done) and not the zig zag.




Glenn

[B. N. Singer]

Hi Bryon,

I think what Phil is referring to is the exaggerated number of horizontal stitch lines...and not the zig zag.

Glenn

Agreed Glenn,

But if a person were to read this thread and encounter a collar similar to my posted picture, a negative conclusion might be made.

Bryon

[Glenn McInnes]

But if a person were to read this thread and encounter a collar similar to my posted picture, a negative conclusion might be made.

Bryon

Absolutely Bryon, have seen a few originals with the tight zig zag, a feature often encountered on fakes too of course.




Best,
Glenn

[Leroy]

Gentlemen,
This is very informative.
Might I inquire again if there was any government acceptance standard regarding methods of stitching?
Thanks,
Leroy

[phild]

Absolutely Bryon, have seen a few originals with the tight zig zag, a feature often encountered on fakes too of course.


Best,
Glenn

I think that Bryon's photo makes as good point as well. It is not so much the tightness of the rows as the number. Bryon's wrap reveals one or maybe two more rows of stitching above what I consider the number most often encountered. This means absolutly nothing as originals easily fall within this variance and of course fakes can and often do exactly duplicate the meaningless "textbook" petty characteristics that so many collectors hold in high esteem these days.

The subject wrap of this post shows approx 2X the number of rows that Bryon's shows and about 2.5X the number that I usually see! That makes me take notice at least. Also a good number of well done fake wraps started showing about 15 years ago with this same characteristic...marked Wien I beileve...

[phild]

Sorry that my post above sounds a little high minded, that was not my intent. I somehow missed the posts by Glenn and Bryon above it that said the same thing, but probably better.

As to the question about the regulations about exact stitching on contract items, my opinion is that there a good bit of variety in the details from maker to maker and the different time periods of the war. Having said that, there was also certain ways and standards of construction that were prescribed and enforced. Knowing all the differences of which is which is one of the subjective areas of this hobby.

Most uniform collectors who have been a this a good while have developed thier own "list" of what they look for in original and fake items. These criteria get tested and sometimes adjusted with the more that we look at and understand...at least that is my take on things.

It is dangerous and probably conter-productive for collectors to reveal and lay out all of what they have learned to look for. I understand or think that I understand that to be the main reason that most responses stop short of a forensic level examination of items that are posted.

[Leroy]

Thanks for the information. I have learned some things in this thread that I didn't know before.
Best,
Leroy

[PANZERPIONIERE]

I examined the wrapper originally posted in the thread in person on Saturday, it is a total reproduction.
Steve

Looking for anything pertaining to Pi.Btl.16 or Pz.Pi.Btl.16 and Pz.Pi. items.
Thanks Steve