What could cause this ?

[Ragnarok]

If you look at the bottom picture at this page - what could cause such damage ?

[Listy]

weak armour.

the AP round hits a weak point and cuase's a part to sheer off.

but thats a guess.

maybe a fire from the pentrrating hit on the lower hull cuased a fire which warped the superstructure, which might explain the crack dow nthe side.

[cbo]

Re: What could cause this ?

Originally posted by Ragnarok
If you look at the bottom picture at this page - what could cause such damage ?

76mm or 3" full caliber AP or APC from Sherman or M10 and brittle armour plate.

The vehicle was captured by French forces in WWII and pictures exist of it driving around under its new management. So no fire and no explosion caused the cracks.

Claus B

[Takao]

From "Panzers at Saumur #1"

The damage was caused by Shermans. High-velocity shell hits will cause armor plate to crack or buckle and occasionaly pop the weld seams. Looks like that all happened here. According to the book that's a 75mm shell stuck in the armor plate underneath the gun mantlet.

[Matt L]

I recally once reading a post-war British analysis of German armor plate that stated it was of much higher quality and rather harder than that used by the Allies. Being harder, I would expect that if over-stressed, it would crack rather than deform. I don't really think the cause of the damage to this Jagdpanzer is brittle armor per se, but rather the specific hits. Notice the front hull plate has one clean penetration with the characteristic edge and one 76mm projectile embedded in it- and no cracks. These hits were at virtually 90-degrees. The hits above appear to have struck the joint and were at an oblique angle- possibly even having deflected somewhat after hitting the absent conical cover that was there. I think it's likely that several hits stressed the metal sufficiently at a point where none could exactly penetrate, and finally result in cracking. The missing chunk probably was taken off by a hit subsequent to the main crack.

There's a fairly famous, and probably staged, photograph of a couple of Soviet tankers looking at a multitude of holes in the turret of a Tiger- one of which has large cracks spreading to the left and right of it. It seems likely that after enough hits, the steel is stressed enough to crack.

Of course, not being a metallurgist myself, these are only opinions, but to me they seem logical It certainly is a dramatic picture though, isn't it?

Matt

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Matt L
Of course, not being a metallurgist myself, these are only opinions, but to me they seem logical It certainly is a dramatic picture though, isn't it?

Matt

It's still good to hear your thoughts about it, that's why I posted the thread. And, yes, it is a dramatic picture.

[Nerdenwerfer]

Multiple hits the go

There are a number of conclusions available from the photo and perhaps real life inspection would reveal even more. However looking closely at the picture there appear to be several relevent details.

i. The bottom left hand corner of he front portion of the jagged hole seems to be a (75mm??) penetration or near penetration right on the corner of the superstructure. This seems evident from the radial splaying around that portion of the wound.

ii. There is clear indication of a deflected shot on the lower portion of the sloped plate to the left of the mantle.

iii. There appears to be indications of another penetration in between the clear penetration and the embedded shell right on the edge of the glacis plate and the vertical front plate.

I feel that the penetration mentioned in iii. has ruined the weld supporting the horizontal plate supporting the outer portion of the superstructure. The penetration mentioned in i. has resulted in failure of the welds along that edge. The deflected shot has dislodged whatever was in the circular hole. The conditions are now right for the general catastrophic failure observed to be induced by a hit or hits in the portion missing. The cracks would be exacerbated by the loss of lateral support from the horizontal plate that has sagged.

On the other hand I could be completely wrong.

Thanks for the link Raggers a fascinating thread.