Turining radius of the Tigers

[Tiger II lover]

The monsterous Tiger series were amazingly agile tanks. The turning radius of the Tiger I was 3.44 metres. The turning radius of the Tiger II was 2.08 metres.
















Odin Zone Refugee

[Wirbelwind]

I read somewhere that it was forbidden for tankcrews to make too sharp turns 'cause they were very afraid of the tracks coming off in the thick of the fight? Any of this true?

[Killjoy Ausf. B]

"Turn, Turn, Turn..."

Perhaps not officially forbidden, but I believe experience in the field showed that tracks would break if too sharp a turn was made.
A Schiffen Publications reference book on the Tiger I refers to the amount of care required to be taken to insure proper track tension on the tanks. (Matter of fact, the whole tank seemed to have required a lot more TLC a lot more often than one would think practical for a vehicle intended to spend the bulk of its time far from maintenance facilities... eg. engine overhaul after driving like, 10km...)
Some material from the Tiger training manual is reproduced in this book, and includes wierd little rhymes like:
"If the track-chain rips, one thinks, If only I took care of it"

[Wirbelwind]

Yeah, I was going to refer to that. The Panther- and Tigerfibel both go out their way to ensure proper track care, oh yeah, and it also points out something about re-fueling a Panther or Tiger? Now, what was that again....

[Killjoy Ausf. B]

"...Heavy Heavy Fuel..."

Some bits from the book "Tiger I", br Schiffer, not Schiffen (sorry) which I just dug out... and Which quotes tie Tigerfibel:

Motto:
Oh, friend, there are two sides to "Spirit",
Sometimes you drive, sometimes you fly with it.

Keep the tank cap tight but the air vent open
Otherwise the motor won't take fuel in
Keep fuel containers and hoses clean, don't remove the strainer
Otherwise the fuel lines and gauges will get dirty. You can have big trouble with both
Clean dust and water off gauges, don't damage connections'rather replace them, put in clean ones
Tighten bolts firmly
Otherwise the Tiger will burn and explode.

Therefore: Fill it - but don't spill it
Otherwise the Tiger will burn and explode
Attention! When the fuel runs out - immediately switch to the reserve
When the reserve runs out - immediately stop and turn off the motor, a 30-second job
Otherwise the fuel pumps and lines will be emptied, and after refueling you'll get no fuel: Unscrew air filter and housing, remove hollow screws in the carburetor (sic), let electric pump run until fuel comes (don't let it overrun). Put everything back together.
One hour's work!

Sounds like something of a pain in the neck to keep track of...
Do you suppose T-34 crews had such elaborate procedures?

[Wirbelwind]

Oh, yeah. Now I remember.... 'Fill, don't spill'. Lernen muss spass machen, right?

ABout the Russian crews... If you knew your enemy had better AFV's and better crew... would you bother giving them a 3 month course in 'How to drive a tank?' I sure a shell wouldn't.

On the other hand, if your enemy builds his tanks on a 1:3 balance, I'd go out of my way to give them a thourough course.

It all depends.. from which point of view do look at it?

[Killjoy Ausf. B]

Well...

I always wondered if using such a method had to do with the use of younger trainees in Tiger units...
All these cartoons and little ditties seem somehow geared to appeal to youth. There are these two drawings of the gunner ("Wooden-eye the Infallible"?! He's winking and giving a thumbs-up) and loader ("Bean-bag the Limitless"?! He's even holding a round with a little smirking face on it & winking, too)
It worked, I guess...

As for the Russians, Quality comparisons, etc...
We could debate this until doomsday...
I recall reading that the Tiger was one tank the Russians seldom bothered to utilize for themselves if captured because it broke down too often...
On the other hand, when you are basically press-ganging peasant farmboys into tank army crews and training them to turn in the direction of the shoulder they are booted in by the tank commander a la the Red Army, anything more complex must have been like trying to learn ancient greek via correspondence course...

I presumed the extensive Tiger training had as much to do with the tempermental nature of a finely crafted machine when subjected to rough use as to make sure it was used "properly" in a tactical sense. Recall, the Germans had few recovery vehicles, whether by design or circumstance, so the loss of a Tiger because of breakdown would have been more serious than, say, a T34, which was sort of a slapped-together affair by comparison, but which apparently could withstand somewhat more abuse insofar as maintenance was concerned

[Greg]

... All these cartoons and little ditties seem somehow geared to appeal to youth. There are these two drawings of the gunner ("Wooden-eye the Infallible"?! He's winking and giving a thumbs-up) and loader ("Bean-bag the Limitless"?! He's even holding a round with a little smirking face on it & winking, too)
It worked, I guess...


The "technical manuals as cartoons" approach has been used by the US Army as well. "PM" (Preventive Maintenance) magazine is an example. It was an official publication ("was..." maybe it's still being published, haven't seen one in years) that I believe started in the later Vietnam years and continued at least to the early 90s. It used cartoons to illustrate tips and techniques on all sorts of maintenance: small arms, wheeled and tracked vehicles, tools, etc. Bonnie and Connie were the pin-up ladies who taught the tips to the soldiers, helped by by some crusty old hardcore maintenance NCOs.
The cartoon technique seemed to work in the US Army as well.

Greg

[Wirbelwind]

Cartoons? Weren't they put in 'cause Guderian firmly believed in the fact that learning should be fun... I recall this 'Lernen muss Spass machen' line.

Anyway. What would you like better:

a:Large chuncks of text without cartoons.

b:Funny cartoons that break the text every now and than. To have a (little) laugh in the classroom.

I'd choose <b>

[Killjoy Ausf. B]

I see the logic.
Really, I do.

Also, I have to keep reminding myself that the "target audience" belonged to an era with a more limited amount of visual media...

[Tiger II lover]

The voluptuous German girls of TIGERFIBEL

Remember the big, sexy German girls in the training manual? Now they took a huge portion of responsibility keeping those men reading the manuals.
















Odin Zone Refugee

[Killjoy Ausf. B]

Perhaps to better remind them of what was waiting for them back at home so they'd get busy crushing those "sub-human Asiatics"....

[Tiger II lover]

Tigerfibel

I know the Nazis were racist and I believe your quote was just that and not your own. Terrible as it was unfortunately we are reminded of the history. The girls really kept their attention on the book. But did it work... perhaps.















Odin Zone Refugee

[Killjoy Ausf. B]

Geez, I didn't even stop to think how that might sound...
Sincere apologies if I sounded like Julius Streicher !

[Ed Tainton]

Turning and shooting

Micheal Wittman would turn his whole tank when aquiring a target. The turning of the turret would take too much time, Of course this would have to be done carefully.