Remains of Kingtiger 313 sPzAbt 503 found

[Tamás Sebestyén]

Hi guys!

http://web.axelero.hu/gebauer/Tigris/tigris.htm

Some hungarian panzer enthusiasts after a huge amount of research and a scientific excavation found the remains of Kingtiger 313 sPzAbt 503 in Hungary, south of Cegl******233;d, in Csemő-Hanth******225;za.

The panzer was stuck in the mud,then destroyed by an another KT. After the war the russians "choped" it by blowing it up and the pieces were transported to the nearest railway station and started their last road to the furnace.

The remains were the parts that were left for some reason by the russians and some of the parts were still used by the residents living close by.

Best regards
Tam******225;s

[Matt Starr]

#

[Greg]

Amazing! Thanks for pointing this out.

I have always suspected that similar relics might still be at the sites in the Ardennes where the abandoned tanks were cut up for scrap. Supposedly many of the tanks were moved intact to the iron foundries and scrap dealers in Liege who bought them, but some were cut up in place. I was always chicken to use my metal detector right beside the roads where most of the abandoned tanks ended up, but you never know what might still be there...

Best,
Greg

[Panzer Rob]

Awesome. Unfortunately there's not much left, but it’s better than nothing I guess.


I only have one picture of a s.Pz.Abt.503 TII #313 in my digital archive, but sadly it's not dated nor do I have a location for it, so I can't tell you if it is in fact the same vehicle. Perhaps Mr. Kenny or one of the other Tiger experts can chime in with some info.




Picture was found on eBay so I can't credit it.

I've heard rumors of a complete Tiger II sitting at the bottom of a lake somewhere in Hungary, but local laws prevent anyone from salvaging it.


Gerg- if you ever want to head over to Europe and do some digging I'm there

Rob

[Tamás Sebestyén]

museum

Gentlemen!

I forgot to mention that the KT is stated to be exhibited in the future in the collection of the Bólyai Military College, Budapest, Hungary. I think it was a very good job and everything was done for the public.

Best regards
Tamás

[Panzer Rob]

Gentlemen!

I forgot to mention that the KT is stated to be exhibited in the future in the collection of the Bólyai Military College, Budapest, Hungary. I think it was a very good job and everything was done for the public.

Best regards
Tamás

Tamás-

That's good to hear.

By any chance, do you happen to know anything about a Tiger II submerged in a lake somewhere in Hungary?

[Tamás Sebestyén]

Lake Balaton

Rob!

The lake is the Lake Balaton or Plattensee in german. There are still about 20 wrecked aircrafts in the lake, but no Tiger II-s. It was rumoured that after the panzer went out of fuel, the crew directed it to the lake. It is impossible that the thin ice could resist the huge weight (nearly 70 tons!). The fact is that the lake is very shallow (usually 3-4 m), so no objects could avoid the attention of the fishermen or the scuba divers (it is not a sea).

some aircrafts from the lake:
Il-2
http://www.netlabor.hu/roncskutatas/...o.php?lid=8585
Ju-88 nightfighter
http://www.netlabor.hu/roncskutatas/...o.php?lid=8501
http://www.geocities.com/hjunkers/ju_ju88_m10.htm

Best regards
Tam******225;s

[GEBIRGS-JAGER]

Thanks Tamas,good thread keep us informed. Brian

[Tamás Sebestyén]

re

divebomber!
It's my pleasure.
Best regards
Tamás

[Panzer Rob]

Tamás-

Thanks for the links. I'm pretty sure that there is a TII in a lake somewhere in Hungary (not lake Balaton) and that many people had tried to get the local authorities to grant them permission to recover the tank, but that all requests had been denied. I'll have to dig around and see if I can find those old posts

Thanks,
Rob

Rob!

The lake is the Lake Balaton or Plattensee in german. There are still about 20 wrecked aircrafts in the lake, but no Tiger II-s. It was rumoured that after the panzer went out of fuel, the crew directed it to the lake. It is impossible that the thin ice could resist the huge weight (nearly 70 tons!). The fact is that the lake is very shallow (usually 3-4 m), so no objects could avoid the attention of the fishermen or the scuba divers (it is not a sea).

some aircrafts from the lake:
Il-2
http://www.netlabor.hu/roncskutatas/...o.php?lid=8585
Ju-88 nightfighter
http://www.netlabor.hu/roncskutatas/...o.php?lid=8501
http://www.geocities.com/hjunkers/ju_ju88_m10.htm

Best regards
Tamás

[Fightclub]

Would be interesting why they so sure that this is indeed the wreck of Tiger 313 of 503.

Did they found the turret number?

[Tamás Sebestyén]

re

Fightclub!
<O
As long as I know the story, they did not find any number plates/ side numbers/ ID of the crewJ But they made some serious research before the excavation, so it was not a „comeanddigsome”.
<O
As I understood (not being a panzer fan myself), the number 313 means the position of the tank in the Abteilung/company etc, so when a vehicle was destroyed another spare one got the ID. So there were several 313s (including a Tiger1 also). That particular one is the one pictured in the famous newsreel in which the 45 KTs of the sPzAbt 503 were prepearing to be loaded on trains and to be deployed in the panzer battle around Debrecen (oct.’44).
<O
<Owww.youtube.com/w/King-Tiger?v=B1eMgvtvDGM</O
<O
BUT the german intelligence got certain that governor Horthy (the leader of the Kingdom without a king) was negotiating an armistice with the Soviets. The KTs were directed to the hungarian capital, Budapest, where they laid seige to the Royal Castle (oct.15, 1944). After the short battle the vehicles drove through the city demonstrating the power of the german arms. You maybe remember Operation Mickey Mouse, when Otto Skorzeny’s commando kidnapped Horthy’s son wrapped in a rug. The KTs and the fact that his only child left (his other son died in the eastern front as a fighter pilot in an „accident”) is taken hostage made Horthy cooperate with the germans.
<O
..and back to the train again, the K******246;nigstigers were deployed in the fights in the bridgehead near Szolnok. As the Soviets were advancing the Abteilung fought between the Duna (Danube) and Tisza. In november 2, 1944 during a counterattack the 313 got stuck in mud due to its enormous weight. The crew decided to selfdestruct the vehicle, so another KT shot it several times.
<O
The last day of the 313 can be reconstructed from the diary of the company, from recorded oral history and finally they were lucky enough to contact Freiherr von Rosen Richard, who was the company leader in that time (he is the officer in the KT driving along the other KTs in the vid).
<O
Best regards
Tam******225;s
<O
The facts were taken mainly from the press release, so the credit goes to Kocsis Istv******225;n (arlo8).

[Peter Wiking]

Excellent reference photos for 3D and modeling. Thanks for sharing. Lets hope they take good care of these remains.

Peter