"Legion Condor" wound badge, the real deal?

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear fellow collectors,

Is this silver "Legion Condor" wound badge that seems to be right at first glance the real thing? Can anyone tell for sure? Are there good fakes with these characteristics? Sorry, no other pics available as it is not mine.

Cheers, Frank

[Frank Heukemes]

I guess your silence means that you also see no fault with it. It looks perfect, I just wanted to know if there are any known good fakes with perfect aging etc. that would look somewhat like this.

Cheers, Frank

[atcase]

Hi Munich,
here is one subject that has been commented on befor and yet to my knowlege has never really been answered. Ihave asked befor on references regarding the 1936/1939 W.B. but info seems very inconclusive along with the belief / denial (depending which source you read) as too wether these badges were issued up to 1942, and if an oriional receipient received the same style badge for subsequent awards.

The only reference i have is the wound badge book by W.Hamelman, NOW befor all you dudes rush for your keyboards i know that it is a poorly presented book,
a poorly illustrated book photocopies of badges??
cynical text

But can any person comment on the information??????

sorry Munich it may seem that i have gone on somewhat here but the bone of contention is of the swastica on the 1936/1939 badges that differ from the 1939 prototype
1939/1945 1st type
1939/1945 2nd type
as i can appreciate your photo does not show the swastica but there again according to available information to myself your badge has the wrong style of ww1 helmet (Hamelman shows 4 styles).

Who know may be this answer will open up the debate

[Javier D. Garcia]

Zero interest...???

It looks like this thread was viewed by lots of people but no one wants to post a reply...
Due to I specially collect wound badges I check all messages about wb´s. Usually we can post some helpfull information (we try our best) but when we talk about Legion Condor WB´s things change a little, and there´s little response to the questions asked...
I think this is one of those grey areas in our hobby, because everybody has opinions, but looks like there´re no clear facts to give some light to this WB´s area.

The most common acepted fact is that only one firm made the "real" Legion Condor WB, with very defined die caracteristics... but when we find a Legion Condor from a reputable dealer and we compare it to those "real" ones, they´re quite different, and in some cases the dealer has several examples, all of them different to each other!

So in all this confussion what can we get clear?
I´ll be awaiting for your replies and lets see if we can give some light in here.

Regards,

Javier.

German Wound Badges

[Eric Stahlhut]

Hola, Javier!

What is your opinion on screwback versions of the 1936 WB?

Gracias,

eric

[Ron Birch]

Frank, it's a good subject it's just I don't have any input, but I have been keeping tabs on this thread to hopefully learn something.

By the way who was suppose to be the only maker of this badge and is there a picture someone can post? And what characteristics make it different from other wb's

[Frank Heukemes]

Well, we have to be careful if we talk about the REAL Legion Condor wound badges (only 1 silver awarded and 128 black ones, no gold ones) or the "socalled Legion Condor" wound badge which was awarded until 1940 and which basically looks the same. The pictured badge clearly falls into the second category if it should be original. I guess these "one maker" wound badges Javier is talking about are the REAL Legion Condor ones. Legion Condor "style" badges should be found regularly and in original form and made by many different makers, so differences should not be too disturbing.
Using my experience with Imperial would badges, I would say this pictured silver badge looks fine. I already have a black one from Detlev which seems to be from a different maker. But as I said, that doesn´t disturb me, no big deal, there should quite a handful of makers for these.
If you out there should own some, it would be great if you could post them, so we could compare and maybe come to some conclusions. As far as I have seen, these were never maker marked.

As for some of you who might not have a clue what we are talking about, the "Legion Condor style" would badge basically looks like an Imperial one (WWIstyle helmet) with a swastika added, which is hidden under the black spots on the pictures. This form of the wound badge was awarded well into WWII (e.g. Poland, France campaigns)

Here is my black one from Detlev:


Cheers, Frank

[Javier D. Garcia]

Hi,

As frank said, this badges are NEVER maker marked and I have the same opinion as him about the first original strike and then the other legion condor style badges made quite after and from different makers.

About the screw back... I don´t think they were officially awarded, but I think they should exist as someone could customize/replace the original pin to a screw back type as they do with other badges.

Regards,

Javier.

[Frank Mills]

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[Javier D. Garcia]

an original one?

Hi,

This is supposed to be one of the original "first strike" badges.
The most accepted keypoints to spot one of the original Legion Condor wound badges are:
- The 3 rivets in the helmet must be touching the swastica.
- The swastica must be stepped.
- The little dots in the background must be in line just above the helmet, as seen in the picture.

Opinions???

Javier.

[Eric Stahlhut]

Very interesting!

Are you basing these guidelines on the assumption that there was only one maker of this badge? That would certainly make sense to me! Any ideas as to who this maker was?

best regards,
e-

[Javier D. Garcia]

Hi,

I think there´s only one maker for the first strike of badges and all of them must be identicall.
Some time a¡fter that other makers started to strike them also, so thats why we can find them whith different die caracteristics.
I call the later ones Legion Condor Style, because they´re originals but not from the first batch of them.
But I must admit I´ve more experience with 1939´s ones that 1936´s, so don´t take this as a rule because I´ve no evidence to prove this.

Cheers,

Javier.

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Javier and all interested,

I now have the item pictured at the very beginning of this thread in my hands and can provide better and unretouched pictures.

Accoring to the dots in line theory, I do have one of the later strikes. I didn´t assume I had one of the very first strikes since there was only 1! silver wound badge actually awarded to Legion Condor troups.

Javier, can you please explain what you mean by a "stepped" swastika?

On the reverse picture of my badge, note the four raised areas in the spaces between the swastika´s arms.

Cheers, Frank

[Frank Heukemes]

and the reverse:

[Javier D. Garcia]

Hi Frank,

I think the one I got offered was like the one you show because I remember it was larger than the "regular" 16mm ones, although I haven´t got a ruler with me.

About the "Stepped" swastica, go to the part 2 thread and take a look to the badge in the right and compare it to the other two in the left. Do you understand what I mean?

Regards,

Javier.