open pin
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I was afraid of that, and the front looks like this.Originally posted by GraemeS
I will post some more pictures after work.
Thanks for the new pictures.
Cheers,
RonnyLast edited by Ronny.R; 04-26-2006, 03:28 AM.Comment
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Cheers Ronny
I assume you are saying the one on the left is a known reproduction and mine looks to be also??
Look forward to your further comments
regards
GraemeComment
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Hello Graeme
In the picture below I have pointed out
Some part of the badge to compare it with yours.
And IMO they are a match. And the catch is the same
On your badge.
I will post a picture of the back of my badge and
Explain my concern.
Cheers,
RonnyComment
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Here is the big problem
My badge is the infamous L/14 fake
Made by Johannes Floch.
The pin and makers mark are not the same.
But I think it is possible that your badge is
Made by Floch.
Let’s see what the wound badge fanatics think
Cheers,
RonnyComment
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Graeme and Ronny:
When I did my initial two badge comparisons for this thread, where I compared what I had labeled for my own files as a "fake" tombak 127 on the left, and an accepted zinc variation on the right, one thing did catch my eye on both comparison photos. I told myself that perhaps I was being too picky, because I stirred up this whole thread and did not mention it.
I am now convinced that it is worth noting. When viewing the berries at the tops of the badges (forming the t shape), I felt that the upper right hand berry was lower on the suspected "fake" then it was on the accepted zinc badge. This can be seen on both of my initial comparison scans.
Check out the areas I've marked and the berry that would form the right side of the "t cross". It does appear lower than on the other.
DennisLast edited by Dennis P; 04-27-2006, 10:39 PM.Comment
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And on the second comparison.Comment
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When considering the comparison photo of the L14 Floch FAKE and Graeme's badge which Ronny generated, the berries I am talking about can be seen as LOWER on BOTH badges.
I'm not seeing that as a very good sign either.
DennisComment
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Hi guys,
I do not know if I am right, but Graeme's badges did and does not necessarily give me a bad feeling. But then again, if it is a Floch fake, most of these look very believable. One thing that does not make me believe in the Floch theory is that Floch's WB fakes usually have a very well done golden finish, almost too good. Graeme's badge's finish looks like the way an original finish should behave on zinc.
I am undecided, but if the obverse and tha catch are a perfect match to Floch fakes, the connection becomes likely.Cheers, Frank
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Hi,
Interesting thread. Ronny's post#19 and Dennis' post#23 were good pointers/comparisons to a know fake. One thing not picked up on is the 4-5-5-5 configuration of the serrations in the sword cross-guards on the L/14 and on Graeme's 127. This unusual combination is also shared by another imo highly suspect badge, linked here;
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=30+repro
Go to post#52 (third para) where the unusual sword hilt arrangement is also described (imaged well in post#38 and #40). Also go to post#23 re the catch profile of the suspect 30 - looks the same as this 127 and the known Floch.
It has already been noted that the typical 127 zincer with cast in hinge/catch has different obverse features to Graeme's type. The typical 127 zincer appears to have standard/genuine "30" obverse characteristics.
The finish on the Silver example Dennis has imaged looks a bit strange to me - almost a spray paint effect on the glimpses of the reverse rather than a plating. Although the finish looks good on Graeme's example, I think it is still suspect, if only because the basemetal appears to be zinc but the hinge/catch would be more at home on a tombak example.
Regards
MikeRegards
Mike
Evaluate the item, not the story and not the seller's reputation!
If you PM/contact me without the courtesy of using your first name, please don't be offended if I politely ignore you!Comment
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To make things even more confusing
Maybe the Floch design is a copy of the 127 original badges.
About the gold finish, maybe he have learned his lesson
And make the badges more convincing, the 127 badges
Exist in gold and silver I have never seen a silver L/14-63 badge.
And the wide pin on the L/14-63 badges is now well known.
So he has to make a new design when the old one turned bad
Dose any one knows when the 127 badges turned up
Let’s see what Chris and Steven has to say
Cheers,
RonnyComment
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Hi Guys
Thank you all for all the comments, the great pics and pointers. For me this is a great thread, even though my badge is looking very suspect indeed. I can't believe the amount of "dots" I have been looking at
I agree that the links to the "L/14 fake" are not a good sign.
A couple of questions I have.
Firstly, do you guys agree that the chance of the obverse design of a "127" badge changing between a cast set up and a soldered set up would be small.
Is it common for this to occur with other makers? I suspect not common at all.
Do we know what design the L/14 was copied from? As Ronny mentioned, there is the very small chance it was copied from an original 127, but this would mean the 127 badges having changed their obverse designs (unlikely) at some stage.
Do we have the measurements of the L/14 and would it be useful for me to supply dimensions of my badge?
thanks again
regards
GraemeComment
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Mike:
I'm glad you brought up the 30 Wound Badge thread. It was well worth re-reading and the specific posts you noted contain information and photos that dovetail nicely into our discussion here.
Graeme:
Weights and dimensions may come in handy as this discussion evolves. I would subscribe to the thought that a changed obverse design during a production change would be somewhat less likely as well.
I have been seeing these massive 127s around with some frequency for about 2-3 years. This GWB currently for sale on a reputable major dealer site shares the 4-5-5-5 crossguard trait Mike mentioned, and the background dot characteristics illustrated by Ronny. It also features that lower right hand berry in the "t" formation at the badge's top.
I'm anxious to hear from some of the other WB guys.
DennisLast edited by Dennis P; 04-27-2006, 11:40 PM.Comment
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some more examples of the 127 with this setup to ponder over:Cheers, Frank
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revCheers, Frank
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