Wb 21 - l/50

[EINARN01]

Hello! Does anyone have fotos of Black and Silver Woundbadges marked 21 or L/50? Best Regards Einar N

[Hans N]

Hi Einar,

no genuine ones that i am aware of.

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Einar,

I agree with Hans that we don't know of any original, marked Godet wound badges. They are listed as a maker of wound badges in most publications, however we have yet to find a verifiable original example by this maker unfortunately.

Tom

[Shaver]

Hello,

I found this one in Reichertshofen.
I washed this WB because it was dirty, and found this stamp.
Imo a nice an typical L/50 stamp.

Greeting Shaver

[Mike Kenny]

Hi,

Nice badge but is it L/50 or L/53? It looks more like the latter to me.

No offence, but it looks like the badge was sand blasted to reveal the maker's mark!

Regards
Mike

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

Sorry to say, but this one is a fake, it has the same exact obverse design as the "top notch" solid backed fakes we see all the time with different maker marks (21, L/50, 134, 4, 13, etc.).

Also, compare the maker mark with all known original Godet L/50 maker marks and you will see they are not the same. Here are a few from my files from EK1s and Oakleaves. All originals match the same stamp features, but the one shown on the WB is not the same in several areas, in particular the bottom of the slash ending location, as well as the gap at the top of the "5", etc. Also the features of the stamp are broken in several areas, in particular in the rectangular border around the mark, a classic sign of a cast fake stamp rather than a true stamped in mark like we see on originals.

Tom

[Mike Kenny]

Hi Tom,

Just so I'm on the same page, by "top notch" solid backed fakes do you mean the ones in the recent thread:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru....php?t=1035841

If so, imo there are some subtle but distinct differences (rear rivet, form/size of the berries at the top of the wreath, "flat" pebbling on the black above, etc).

Re the marking being cast in, by saying that are you implying this badge was cast from a genuine L/50 stamped badge? I don't see how a stamped mark can be "cast" and somehow transferred onto another badge of a different design or in a different location? Or are you saying they have somehow made a punch/stamp from the casting of an original marking?

I'm still open to discussing the authenticity of the badge (and marking), just trying to understand the reasoning.

Regards
Mike

[Hans N]

Hi gents,

at the best this is a genuine badge with an later added maker mark IMHO. What strikes me is the fugly finish both obverse as well as the revese, at certain areas it looks very grainy and thick! It almost gives an impression of over painted rust. But it don´t seem to be rusted at all...

Clearly there is a bulge on the obverse of the spot where the maker mark is struck. The maker mark is very shallow struck and correlates very well with the bulge on the obverse... If this were done professionally done at the period this would not hardly be noticed IMO.

[Shaver]

Hello gents,

thank you very much for your opinion! I hope this will be a interesting discussion.
I made some new pictures.

@ Mike: No, this is not a L/53 stamp.

Greeting ernesto

[stukapilot]

Original badge for me.

[Ninja]

Hello,

I am with Hans on this one.
A original badge stamped with the L/50 after it left the factory.

I remember seeing a black badge stamped 21 in a similar way
Under the helmet. That badge was dismissed as a original badge stamped later on. On this badge the bulge on the front was very obvious. Can't find the thread.

Also are we sure that Gebeüder Godet & Co made black wound badges, my sources say sliver and gold badge. None of them marked.

Rasmus.

[Shaver]

Hello Stuka, hello Rasmus,

thank you for your opinion.

Greeting Shaver

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

Please show an original L/50 maker mark stamp that matches this one? The Godet LDO stamp was very consistent in its shape, size and forensic characteristics and this stamp does not match known originals found on EK1s and Oakleaves, etc.

Furthermore, the obverse design is an exact match to the "Top Notch" fakes, here is a comparison. Of note are the double berries at the top of the wreath, and right next to it is a raised dot flaw on the tip of the leaf on all these fakes. The helmet rim also has a consistent notch near the front, which can be seen on all the top notch fakes as well as this hollow wound badge. There are also 2 raised dots near the back of the helmet, also found on all top notch fakes as well as this hollow wound badge. There are other consistent flaws too to be seen, but we don't want to point out every one because they are easy to fix on the next generation of fakes. You need really good obvese pics of each badge, so I suggest everyone open up some of these fakes and zoom into the areas in question anc compare with the hollow one that started this thread. All the same flaws are there...

Up till now we have only encountered solid backed top notch fakes. This is the first hollow one I have seen, so clearly a different die was used to make this. But we cannot escape the fact that the obverse match and can only conclude they were all made by the same faker using the same obverse design as a model. Not necessarily a casting, but it is a copy of the design, likely using some CAD software to scan the obverse which is why all the same flaws are there.

The flaws in the stamp are indicitive of being cast, not stamped. So not only do the numerals don't match originals L/50 stamps, but this mark was not stamped in but rather cast into the the reverse of this fake IMO. We will see more of these in the future, no doubt about it.

Mike, I would chalk up any little differences you are seeing to the thick paint that was used on the hollow example which obscures some details. Just look at the sword hilts for instance, very poorly detailed combined with this paint make them look quite weak. Also differences can be seen because they are scanned into cad first before being made. The faker can make changes at that time, or sometimes the scan doesn't pick up everything due to the angle and lighting before the fake was made.

Tom

[Shaver]

Hello Tom,

thank you for this interesting summery! I know this WB-fake very well.
I had a critical look on my WB, but I can't find a notch, two dots or dubble berries. The paint is not thick, but the details are bad. It appears to be burnished under the paint. Under the Paint the WB ist rusty. The marking is without a doubt stamped.

.I will take pictures of the places in question.

Greeting Shaver

[Thomas Durante]

I had a critical look on my WB, but I can't find a notch, two dots or dubble berries.

Hi Shaver,

You have to look at your closeup pics to see these fine details, but I see them on this closeup you took.

Tom