Gau Hannover Badge in Bronze

[Gregorio Torres]

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=969319
Is it correctly named and described in your oppinion?

[speedytop]

Hi Gregorio,

what is your problem?

In 1933 it was a "Veranstaltungsabzeichen" (event badge) for the Gautag Ostannover.

Later, after the revaluation to a badge of honour, we find different names:
- 1937 Award document > Ehrenzeichen der NSDAP. Gau Ost-Hannover
- 1937 Covering letter for the award document > Goldenes Gau-Ehrenzeichen des Gaues Osthannover
- 1937 Organisationsbuch der NSDAP > Gau-Ehrenzeichen Osthannover
- 1940 HuS > Traditions-Gauabzeichen des Gaues Ost-Hannover
- 1939 - 1943 Doehle > Traditions-Gauabzeichen, Abzeichen für Osthannover
- 1944/45 Doehle > Gauehrenzeichen, Ehrenzeichen für Osthannover

Now you can choose.

Uwe

[Gregorio Torres]

Uwe, thank you for your compilation. But my question is related with the item for sale. In my opinion (and many other collectors and researchers' oppinion) the hollow version is a tinnie, just a day badge, not the honor badge. The honour badges, even the bronze grade, came in solid or masive hardware always.

[kevin john]

Hi Patrick describes the badge in his advert as a scarce Gau badge he does not mention it being a Honour badge Kevin.

[Gregorio Torres]

Yes. But even Uwe understood that this was the honor badge, as you can see. This is the event badge, the tinnie, and when we talk about 'the bronze version' people think in the honour badge.
It's a nice item in it self. I will not talk about the price, but this must be described clearly as a day badge. Just my opinion.

[speedytop]

Gregorio, I don't agree with you.

There are several hints, why this badge was first an event badge and later the same badge was an "Ehrenzeichen" (badge of honor).

Plase see first as example the badge "Abzeichen vom SA-Treffen in Braunschweig 1931". That is an official honor badge like the "Coburger Abzeichen" or the "Nürnberger Parteiabzeichen von 1929".
Text in the Doehle books:
"5. Das Abzeichen vom SA-Treffen in Braunschweig 1931
Die vorgenannte parteiamtliche Anordnung bestimmt ferner als besonderes Ehrenzeichen der Partei das Abzeichen des SA-Treffens in Braunschweig am 17. und 18. Oktober 1931, ..."
Translation with the help of DeepL: "The aforementioned official party regulation furthermore stipulates the badge of the SA meeting in Braunschweig as a special honorary badge of the party."

The badge of the meeting > as a special honorary badge.

And I think, and it is not only me, that the same happenend with the "Abzeichen für Osthannover", the change from an event badge to an honorary badge.

And second, why was there first only one badge listed in the Organisationsbuch from 1937 (in a later edition of the Organisationsbuch from 1940 we can find the three grades bronze, silver and gold); other decorations show 1937 e.g. two grades.
Do anyone really believe, that the one listed badge was in gold or in silver?
No, that was the former event badge as honorary badge, in Bronze, hollow back.

I don't trust massive Bronze badges.

Uwe

[Gregorio Torres]

Maybe Uwe. You are doing a logical paralelism with the history of another better researched badges. As you, l have never seen a solid badge in bronze, but l had the word of any other collectors. I e, detlev niemann reflect the same oppinion than me in his cathalogue (3 edition). But, your thesis maybe good

[speedytop]

Gregorio,

he wrote: The hollow versions are from my point of view daybadges, tinnies or participant badges.

In his point of view, he do not know it; there is no proof. And that convinces you?


Nimmergut show in the OEK (21. edition 2017) under No. 3758:

Traditionsabzeichen, hohl geprägt,
ursprünglich Tagungsabzeichen, in Bronze, altgetönt

With the help of DeepL:
Traditional badge, hollow stamped,
primarily (former) day badge, in bronze, old tinted

He does not list a massive badge in bronze.

Uwe

[Gregorio Torres]

Yes uwe. As said... No more than points of view is what we have about this question at the moment. You have your thesis, but no iron cast proof do exist to support it, IMO. Thank you for your explanations. They help me a lot.
Regards

[Gregorio Torres]

I was studing the question and some remarks have to be made.
1. There are no relation between the history of this badge and the Braunschweig Sa 1931 and RPT 1929 badges. These were firstly daybadges and years after the celebration of these meetings became Honor badges fior everybody who attended the meetings, so the items could be worn by those who bought them in 1929 and 1931. This is not the same for the Ost Hannover honour badge, becouse the hollow one was sold as a common tinnie while the honor badge was awarded to the first 100.000 party members in this region. Someone who bought the tinnie or who attend the meeting in 1933 not neccesarily was allowed to wear it as Honor badge.
2. The award document says nothing about grades.
3. We know that some Ost Hannover honour badges were awarded to VIP Party members outside of the Gau. I have never seen an award doccument of this type.
4. We know that a golden and a silver solid versions do exist, and a bronze hollow version worn as tinnie in the meeting
So, my answer..... Maybe that the bronze hollow version was only a tinnie, the silver versión was awarded as honour badge for those who were the first 100.000 party members in the Gau and the golden one was for VIP inside and outside of Ost Hannover Gau ???

[speedytop]

Gregorio,

"Maybe that the bronze hollow version was only a tinnie, ..."

Why we find all three grades in the "Organisationsbücher" since 1938, in the book from von Hessenthal & Schreiber (HuS), and in the last edition from Doehle?

And they all include a simple tinnie under the name Gau-Ehrenzeichen/Traditions-Gauabzeichen?

Uwe

[Gregorio Torres]

And how can they distinguish the tinnie from the honor award in bronze? This is the question :-)

[Gregorio Torres]

And why the award documents dont say anything about grades?

[speedytop]

Hi,

"And how can they distinguish the tinnie from the honor award in bronze? This is the question"
That is not necessary, because it is the same.


"And why the award documents dont say anything about grades?"
Yes, that is astonishing.
There's a bundle on the Internet with a cover letter for the award document, where is written from the Gauleiter Telschow:
"In der Anlage händige ich Ihnen als Besitzer des goldenen Gau-Ehrenzeichens des Gaues Ost-Hannover eine Besitzurkunde in künstlerischer Ausfertigung aus. ..."
(Translator DeepL: As the owner of the golden Medal of Honour of the Gau Ost-Hannover, I am handing you an artistic copy of a deed of ownership.)

Uwe

[Gregorio Torres]

As you know, wearing an honor award without oficial distinction was strictly forbiden. So nobody who buy the tinnie had can wear it. This is a non sense fact, even when we know that the institution of the honour badge was later than the event. Same thing with documents wich do no reflect the grade if they did exist. Its absurd. There is still a lot of shadows to solve on this badge, and l hope that some últimate documentation about this award.
Regards Uwe