1934 Sports Medal Help

[speedytop]

Hi Runic,

"So you are saying that all real award winner medals had the swastika, and were table medals without ribbon? And only in Gold and Siber?"
Yes, yes, no.
In Gold, Silber and Bronze.

The maker used new dies.

"Why would it be sanctioned as an award in the 70’s?"
Is that really a problem for you? Do you see here any propaganda or devotion to Nazis?
With the German law from 1957 about orders and decorations (Ordensgesetz) it was allowed, to wear several decorations of the Third Reich. But only in a denazified version, without nationalsocialist emblems.

Uwe

[Runic]

Thanks for your reply, Uwe.
So you have proof that only these came originally in 3 classes, the real ones from 1934 In Gold, Silver, and Bronze. And were all table medals, not with ribbon.
You also stated that all of the awards had Dem Sieger on the back - and you stated that was normal for competitions?

Why do other medals have Dem Sieger, Zweiter, and Dritter on them? But for only these 1934 games, everyone is a Sieger. Can you let us know why?

So the many winners of the 1934 games, were in sufficient number to sanction a de-nazified version of this rather obscure medal?

Or a faker re-constructed new dies, to mass produce fakes of the 1934 German Struggle Games- to only sell to Germans prohibited from buying versions with the Hakenkreuz?

[speedytop]

Runic, it is really a hard piece of work for me.

It is the decision of the organizer, how he would honor the winners of a sports competition, it is of no importance. All the winners of the Kampfspiele 1930 also got their medals with the same inscription "Sieger". And several participants of other sporting events got their decorations and documents e.g. as "8. Sieger" or "34. Sieger". Absolutely insignificant.

And sorry, but I don't understand your repeated remarks on denazified pieces.

The medals from 1978 are made in remembrance of a great sporting event in Germany (OK, politically abused), for a small sporting event in a small village for a few participants.
That is not forbidden, and nobody can see here an advertising for the Nazi ideology; with the exception of you? Man kann es auch übertreiben (one can also exaggerate it!)!

Uwe

[Runic]

Uwe,

Entschuldigung! Ich spreche nicht viel Deutsch.

I think we got mixed up in translation.
I thought You were saying the ‘later’ Medals were created because of devotion to Nazi Ideology. I was trying to say Nazi ideology had nothing to do with the subject. I am trying to say that both versions were created in 1934.

The real issue for me is the Medals. And for you too, it seems.
So, you are saying - I believe - that the Dem Sieger appellation was used on other Deutsche Kampfspiele Awards, not just the 1934 version?

But - and I don’t care about ideology - I am a Collector and Researcher - you are saying that there was another die strike in 1978? Das ist Stimmt? Ohne Hakenkreuz? Ok. Can you post photos of other Deutsche Kampfspiele Medals, from other years, where there are different grades - Gold, Silber, and Bronze, where they all have “ Dem Sieger” on the reverse? As you say they did, not just in 1934?

Then I may Kapitulate, and pronounce you Dem Sieger of this discussion!

Hals und Beinbruch, Kamerad!

R

[speedytop]

Runic, English is not my native language, but I try to write it understandable.

It is really unbelievable, Runic: "I am trying to say that both versions were created in 1934"
No further comments by me.

As one example, 3rd place 1930, "Dem Sieger":
https://www.ma-shops.de/knopek/item.php5?id=3840

Other sporting events, "34. Sieg" (2nd picture):
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Urkunde-vom-...53.m1438.l2649

Uwe

[Runic]

Uwe,
First, please believe me, your English is much better than my German- your English is good. I could not write as well in German!!

Second, this medal I posted is not an important piece to me in my collection. It is more interesting to me for historical reasons, and for curiosity about it.

I will look into it more, including your links, and see if I can find the certain history of it. But I truly appreciate your input on this item. But you have not convinced me that this medal I posted is from 1978. Sorry, but yes, I seriously think it is possible that two versions of this could have existed in 1934. I have a bag full of Hindenburg stamps from the late 1930s. The Weimar flag was legitimate through 1935! How can you be so certain that only one version existed, if all you have for proof are links to websites selling these items, that say so? Unbelievable, Speedytop, that your only ‘proof’ is from online dealers!

No further comments from me, either.


R