Eagke Order Authentication Request

[Bob Hritz]

I sold this eagle order and it was returned with the buyer saying his jeweler told him it is a crude casting. I would appreciate opinions as it is identical to others I have had. Ring is marked 900 21 and there is a small stamped number on the fan. I cannot read if it is 3 or 5.

Thank you,
Bob Hritz

[tgn]

I would be happy owning that "crude" casting.

Tom

[Tony T-S]

Looks to be a beauty. What made the jeweller think it was cast?

[Bob Hritz]

The jeweler thought the dimples, on the upper fan, were casting flaws because they appear on both sides of the cross. Of course, they are part of the design.

I think I am wasting everyone's time authenticating a no brainer original.

Bob Hritz

[Gary Symonds]

I was the buyer of Bob's badge. When I received the badge I was blown away by its beauty and I PM'd Bob how impressed I was.

I immediately took the badge to my jeweller/repairman, who had been examining my badges for nearly 20 years. He understands how small metalic items are madge and assembled, and over the years he has pointed out how German badges are hand finished after they were die struck. He would explain the various manufacturing and assembling processes, and helped me understand how our badges were made. The man is not a medal collector, and is totally removed from Third Reich collecting, so that he has no ax to grind.

I proudly showed him the Eagle Order and he said that it had no evidence of hand finishing. He pointed to the wreaths surrounding the swastilkas and said the wreaths were "crude." He said that the gilting that I thought to be fire gilt, was in fact electro plating. He pointed to the two dimples on each side of the fan, and said this was evidence of casting. He never said the casting in general was "crude," but only the wreaths.

I was amazed, and told him it appeared to be consistent with the other badges I had shown him over the years, but he stuck to his opinion, and was adamant that he displayed no hand finishing, was not fire gilt, and was a casting.

I PM'd Bob, who immediately refunded my Paypal fee without waiting for me to mail back the badge. I told him that I had doubts about this opinion, and I still do.

If I had not had nearly 20 years of experience with this man, I would have laughed in his face.

Bob is probably right and this is a no brainer, but this is what happened.

Bob of course acted in good faith, and so did I.

[Gaspare]

the fan is fine.. And as far as the wreaths,,yes they don't look cool. BUT,,do a search here. There's like 50 pages.. Plenty of examples to check out,,find one with nice detailed wreaths!

[Pieter]

I can only add that the jeweller is 100% correct. Even with the naked eye you can see clearly this is a cast. Look at the eagles, pure casting flaws.

Ask yourselves this ... if the Third Reich would produce such a prestigous award. Would they deliver such an ugly thing (look at the swastikas) to a new owner. I wouldn't think so ...

[Gaspare]

anyone have a nice one to post....

[RonR]

Bob's looks nicer to me......


............

[RonR]

A neck order...

....

[Runic]

Ron,
Thanks for posting your neck Order, it looks incredibly like mine in the details, down to the very details around the eagles’ eyes, beak, and nostrils, and the way the feathers have ‘flecked’ over the years. Yours gives me confidence in my own.

Bob, I’m wimping out on yours, not saying yay or nay. Only because the details aren’t the same as mine, and I have rarely seen them so golden. Usually the ones I come across are ‘anodized’ or crusted over with dark brown so only flecks of gold show. Not that it proves it one way or the other.
And - If this isn’t a cop out, I’ve never seen one. Would like to look at it with a loupe before I officially doubted it.
Can you post pictures more close-up of the eagles? That could tell a lot, one way or the other.

So, those more expert than me, weigh in - you probably already have. In hand it may be fine.
Just my Very humble opinion. Anyway, I like the way you and Gary transact business, we need that in our hobby.
I’m On the fence on this one.

R

[GiuseppeC]

Hi Bob:

When you have a chance, could you please post some additional photos of the eagles, the fan, and the markings?

I'm looking at it from a phone, and with this screen, I'd like to be sure of what I'm seeing, before I post a "final answer".

A question for Gary's jeweler:

What "finishing work" are you hoping to see? Finely-made jewelery shouldn't show much evidence of its construction. It's a silver-gilt struck frame, with separately applied struck eagles. You wouldn't expect to see filework on it.

@ Pieter:

Casting? Where? Again, I'm looking at it on a small screen, but from here, it looks like your standard Godet EO.

@ Runic:

The tone of the gilding may have to do with photography (lighting, background, etc), and polishing; I wouldn't necessarily be put-off by that.

Thank you!

[ironfist]

nice

thee is nothing wrong with that piece.
top fan stamped 5th class of the revised 1943 regs .
Perfect text book Godet .You can find them with 21 on the ring and without.
What looks to be casting may well be metal reaction due to bad storage .Ie to much moisture in the air and so on.
The colour can vary from the beautiful guild gold colour to near dirty black due to again bad storage and a thousand dirty fingers all over it.
nice piece though.
If the price was right I would buy it again as it was all in good faith.
It needs more of this good faith and gentlemanly conduct in this hobby.
Respect to you all .
Regards Pete

[Richard]

Based on the posted examples, Bob's piece appears to have more rounded tops to the eagle's heads as the others posted. Also the swastikas on the reverse seem very misshapen with the arms showing a very visible lack of uniformity of thickness being much wider at some points than others. Just noticing the differences but not making a call on originality.
Richard V

[ironfist]

eagles

hi Richard.
There will be a slight difference if the one posted by Ron is an earlier one 39-43 as the first one posted is a 43 45 regs one.we are aware of slightly different eagle designs by Godet.
Regards Pete