Coburg Badge

[Military]

How about the Deschler prototype?

Mil

[Stan]

Thank you Chen. Of course that is the badge we thought Vince meant.

IMO he is seriously mistaken.

Stan

[Br. James]

"How about the Deschler prototype?"

Hi Mil,

The only Coburg Badge with "red" on it that comes to my mind is Chris Ailsby's piece. Can you show a photo of "the Deschler prototype?"

Many thanks, my friend,

Br. James

[chen]

This one?

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

@ Stan : i would be very interested to see the source for this badge being a "special award usw."
It is maybe better that we discuss that on the general topic about the badge.

See You

Vince

[Military]

Hello James,

It is the one that Chen posted. thank you, Chen.

Mil

[Jon Fish]

Another type

[Military]

Hello Jon,

To me it is a repro - Is this what you also have in mind?

Mil

[ErichS]

No question that it’s a fake.

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

it could be interesting to identify the year of appearance of this old repro.
Will check some books...

See You

Vince

[Runic]

Vince,
I have to agree with Stan on Ailsby's 'red Coburg badge.' It has been around for ages, is a jeweler's special made piece, and most importantly, is well documented to the period. Not to mention well known to advanced collectors, and much envied.
Other red Coburg badges are most likely just trying to play off the fame of this incredible, one-of-a-kind piece.

R

[Gary Symonds]

Hi,

it could be interesting to identify the year of appearance of this old repro.
Will check some books...

See You

Vince

I picked up an example from the estand as a repro.

My understanding is these were made by Souval.

Anybody have any other info on this?

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

Vince,
I have to agree with Stan on Ailsby's 'red Coburg badge.' It has been around for ages, is a jeweler's special made piece, and most importantly, is well documented to the period. Not to mention well known to advanced collectors, and much envied.
Other red Coburg badges are most likely just trying to play off the fame of this incredible, one-of-a-kind piece.

R

No matter that you "believe" in Chris badge :

- there is no period proof that it existed. Where are your proofs for god's sake ?
- and even if it is period proof, there is not a single proof that it was authorised

Case closed, this is ridiculous to discuss the sex of angels.

And about your "advanced collectors" : people that "believe" in them, like all the famous collectors that were burned in the past with other "real" rarities like the BO prototype, the "Winkler" SS Tuxedo badge etc ?

No matter that you have 986969 billion of dollars in your bank account, no matter that your collection is 9485675 bigger than Kevin Wheatcroft collection, you can be as stupid/unlucky as a poor noob...

And i can give you the name of dozen of "advanced collectors" who promoted fakes on their books and who are now burned. Champagne (rune) anyone ?

Be sure that there are as many advanced collectors that are just laughing out loud due to this topic...

Or maybe that those "believers" are trying to keep their dream alive, helping the owners of those fantasy fakes to be able to find rich idiots ready to be burned ?
I'm sure it was never ever done before...

The first fake Croix de Guerre Légionnaire are from early 60's, but they are still fake. I have confirmed models bought before the "red" Coburg badge ever miraculously appeared on Earth...

So the "proof" that "it is old, and all the crooks/"specialists" legitimized it for decades" is just laughable.

See You

Vince

[Runic]

Vince,
Point well made. I do believe in Chris' badge, but re-reading my post, I shouldn't have qualified my point by saying just because 'advanced collectors' believe it, it is real. Using the term 'advanced collector,' on the re-read, sounds snobbish. And believe me, I have been burned enough in our hobby Not to think of myself as 'advanced,' or to go around throwing my chest out as some sort of expert. I've bought my share of expensive paperweights over the years.

If I came off that way on my post, you were right to call me on it.

And there are far too many members of this forum who know way, way more than I do, for me to think of myself as more advanced than any other collector. That's why I keep learning here. And believe me, I learn something almost everywhere I look on WAF.

Let me re-word it. I believe Chris' badge is real, in my humble opinion, using my best judgment from the information I have. I would probably trade my whole collection to own it. But That's just me, and my opinion.

As far as many 'advanced collectors' laughing out loud due to this topic, I am laughing with them, because of the way you called me out. Pretty good stuff, even I had a good laugh at my own expense.

I still think it's real though. 😁

Good response, Vince.

John

[jimmy72]

Hi,



No matter that you "believe" in Chris badge :

- there is no period proof that it existed. Where are your proofs for god's sake ?
- and even if it is period proof, there is not a single proof that it was authorised

Case closed, this is ridiculous to discuss the sex of angels.

And about your "advanced collectors" : people that "believe" in them, like all the famous collectors that were burned in the past with other "real" rarities like the BO prototype, the "Winkler" SS Tuxedo badge etc ?

No matter that you have 986969 billion of dollars in your bank account, no matter that your collection is 9485675 bigger than Kevin Wheatcroft collection, you can be as stupid/unlucky as a poor noob...

And i can give you the name of dozen of "advanced collectors" who promoted fakes on their books and who are now burned. Champagne (rune) anyone ?

Be sure that there are as many advanced collectors that are just laughing out loud due to this topic...

Or maybe that those "believers" are trying to keep their dream alive, helping the owners of those fantasy fakes to be able to find rich idiots ready to be burned ?
I'm sure it was never ever done before...

The first fake Croix de Guerre Légionnaire are from early 60's, but they are still fake. I have confirmed models bought before the "red" Coburg badge ever miraculously appeared on Earth...

So the "proof" that "it is old, and all the crooks/"specialists" legitimized it for decades" is just laughable.

See You

Vince

Well said , Vince. Completely agree . I have pretty well exhausted my reference library regarding this badge and come up with little information . “ Originally the decoration was in bronze but silver coloured examples are known to be in existence “ [Rudolf Kahl . Uniforms and Badges of the Third Reich -pg.25]. 1970s publication. No reference to a silver enamelled version and no footnotes to assist. Is he referencing the silver fake / fantasy badges of the type seen in this thread or something completely different ? I do not know . If Runic has any “ proof “ to add to this thread please post it but I doubt the proof goes beyond an opinion. I would hope at some point Stan would revisit one of the threads regarding this badge and since he is in contact with Ailsby , enlighten us as to why this badge should not be disregarded as utter “ fantasy “ and relegated to the Bazaar table of the estand and sold for $50 bucks .