1923 Gau Badge

[JoeW]

CORRECTION TO ABOVE POST: There is obviously an error in my above post. It should have been addressed to Gary, as that is the quote I used. Stan's name was on my mind as I used his image of the verso of his 1925 badge. Sorry for the mental error which seem to be coming more frequently.

[der-hase-fee]

What I do like about Patrick's example is that it has a beveled leading edge to the catch.

Stan, I am confused. This catch does not look like any of the catches I have observed on the General Gau Honor badge (but for one that is very similar to Patrick's): Its point is bent inwards, while the beveled leading edge is the standard.

Patrick's:



One I'd describe as standard:

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[Stan]

Andreas,

These are the two badges which I currently own. One is the "Alpacca" stamped version, the other an "800" solid wreath version.

The Alpacca has a definite "junckeresque" bevelled edge on the catch whilst the "800" appears to be bevelled but is not, its just that the solder makes it look that way.

Bevelling edges the Juncker way is always a plus point in my view although fakers can obviously copy it.

Stan

[Stan]

Joe,

As we have already agreed, the "double" pins on the 1923/25 Gau badges are slightly flattened.

Some collectors find this difficult to accept because they do appear perfectly round unless you really look close.

If the pins were round then they would have the same diameter, but they don't.

The width of the double pin is 3.2mm divided by 2 = 1.6mm. The height however is only 1.45mm proving that they are slightly flattened.

These are the same measurements on both of my badges.

It would be interesting to find out the measurements of Patrick's pin.

Stan

[der-hase-fee]

Thank you, Stan, for clarifying 2 important details.

The Alpacca has a definite "junckeresque" bevelled edge on the catch whilst the "800" appears to be bevelled but is not, its just that the solder makes it look that way.

The beveled edge you are referring to is at the end of the catch that's attached to the wreath, not the other end I have been referring to.

The width of the double pin is 3.2mm divided by 2 = 1.6mm. The height however is only 1.45mm proving that they are slightly flattened

The flattening of the pin that is being referred to is a reduction of its dimension in the direction perpendicular to the badge.

[Stan]

Yes, Andreas.

The bevelling is in the leading edge of the catch to aid closing the pin.

Stan

[JoeW]

So Stan's solid back wreath would be a Type V in Gottlieb's list? Did Wachter make the solid wreath version too? Different weights? What about dimensions?

My 800 hollow wreath measures 44 mm on the wreath diameter and 45.5mm on the swaz point of arm to point of arm.

Here is an image of the obverse of my 1923 which is missing a lot of paint. And an image of the catch. I am nervous latch and unlatching the pin as I feel a great deal of tension and worry about the stability of the hinge.

[DanCz]

I really only collect political stuff and I found this to be a most enjoyable and informative thread - my sincere thanks to all who made time and took the effort to contribute. It is what collecting such a pleasure.

[Gary Symonds]

So Stan's solid back wreath would be a Type V in Gottlieb's list? Did Wachter make the solid wreath version too? Different weights? What about dimensions?

My 800 hollow wreath measures 44 mm on the wreath diameter and 45.5mm on the swaz point of arm to point of arm.

Here is an image of the obverse of my 1923 which is missing a lot of paint. And an image of the catch. I am nervous latch and unlatching the pin as I feel a great deal of tension and worry about the stability of the hinge.

Joe, the paint loss on your 1923 is a classic example of the fragility of the glossy Japaned paint. So many of the painted 23s show similar defects. My 1923 has a mint paint job, but if exposed to the wear and tear of being worn, it would only be a matter of time when my mint example would look like yours.

As I pointed out, Patrick's example shows a different finish that is not glossy and has no paint loss.

Though nowherer near as attractive, this finish is far more durable.

[der-hase-fee]

I am nervous latch and unlatching the pin as I feel a great deal of tension and worry about the stability of the hinge.

The bevelling is in the leading edge of the catch to aid closing the pin.

I have "played" with 2 of my badges featuring the doubled pin and found that opening/closing it is really hard, with or without the beveling.

[JoeW]

I have "played" with 2 of my badges featuring the doubled pin and found that opening/closing it is really hard, with or without the beveling.

I added a spot of very light lubricant which really doesn't help. Apparently torque develops between the pin and hinge once the pin is at 45 degrees to closure. I looked closely at the hinge on mine and I see that it is not soldered , but rather anchored to the wreath by attaching in some way to s small anchor plate that can be seen looking directly at the space between the arm of the swaz and the wreath. Has anyone else noticed this or is this unique to mine?

[Bob Hritz]

I added a spot of very light lubricant which really doesn't help. Apparently torque develops between the pin and hinge once the pin is at 45 degrees to closure. I looked closely at the hinge on mine and I see that it is not soldered , but rather anchored to the wreath by attaching in some way to s small anchor plate that can be seen looking directly at the space between the arm of the swaz and the wreath. Has anyone else noticed this or is this unique to mine?

Yours is not unique. It is standard.

Bob Hritz

[JoeW]

Yours is not unique. It is standard.

Bob Hritz

Thanks for this information Bob. Patrick, is your hinge similarly anchored?

Sorry, but apparently Photobucket web photo hosting site is having financial problems and has decided to eliminate third party hosting of images stored on their site unless former "free" users pay a hostage fee of $400 a year to allow previously posted image links to be seen. And as this site does not allow corrections, most of my images have disappeared. Such is life.

[Stan]

Joe,

Sizes of my two are the same as yours:

Hollow

Wreath= 44,00mm. Swas = 45,80

Solid

Wreath = 44.10. Swas = 45,77

Stan

[Patrick W]

Hi Guys

thanks for all the discussion, apologies I'm late coming back to this one-

I will endeavour to take some better photos in daylight of the catch etc, it has been bent over and manipulated somehow by the looks of it.

Measurements I have done with calipers but the battery is gone so they are by eye but pretty accurate

so- pin width 3.2mm

top of hinge to bottom of pin 40mm

width swaz 46.5mm

width wreath across 44mm

the hinge as far as I can tell is soldered direct to the wreath- I don't see any hinge plate- is that what you mean Joe?

many thanks

Patrick