1923 Gau Badge

[Patrick W]

Hi Guys

Please could I get some opinions on this one?

Many thanks

Patrick

[Patrick W]

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[Patrick W]

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[Br. James]

Hi Patrick,

This looks like a good one -- though it's a 1925 General Gau Badge, not a "1923 Gau Badge."

Cheers,

Br. James

[Military]

I've owned a 1923 Gau and not a 1925. But i would still expect the details especially the laurel leaves to be crisp. I would pass on this one. Mil

[JoeW]

I agree with Br. James. The detail on the oak leaves is consistent with those on my 1923, even though the lighting wasn't good enough to show the acorns in the first image. The rivets look good as does the angle cut on the pin retainer. MM looks good too.

[Stan]

When I bought my first Gau 1923 badge many years ago the dealer told me that the pin should not have any spaces.

How true this is I don't know but it is something I have always remembered.

This badge has been condemned as a fake on GCA by Matthew.

Stan

[JoeW]

Stan, are you referring to that bit of light near the bottom of the pin. Did Matthew make his condemnation with photos showing more detail as truthfully these suck. I will have to put these photos on his forum for his view again and learn his reasons. I don't see any glaring problems from these photos but I wouldn't buy until I had it in hand. Patrick, do you have a weight on this piece?

[JoeW]

Stan, you're correct. The two sides of the pin on my 1923 are tight as a drum. And the pin stock is not round among other things as Matt points out on his web site here: http://www.nsdap-awards.com/forum/in...p?topic=1095.0 . Comparing again to mine, the lack of color differentiation on the verso of the swaz and wreath is evident. .

For the record, my '23 weighs 16.7 grms.

[der-hase-fee]

Stan, you're correct. The two sides of the pin on my 1923 are tight as a drum. And the pin stock is not round among other things as Matt points out on his web site. Comparing again to mine, the lack of color differentiation on the verso of the swaz and wreath is evident.

If that's all the evidence he has I am not buying it. Maybe Patrick should send the badge to a certain place in Switzerland.

[JoeW]

Matt pointed out that an example like the one above sold on emedals for $2000.

[Patrick W]

Thanks for the thoughts guys, I saw that thread on the other forum and can't put the link together with my badge and the Lakesidetrader example how they are the same fake as the ones that started that thread- they are completely different to my eye!

My badge weighs in at 17.1g so heavier than yours by a fraction which is a good sign I think. Also the thing about the pin- if you look at the picture you can see the area where the gap is has been impacted with pliers or something similar- in fact it is slightly twisted which causes the small gap, the rest is tight.

From handling a number of these in the past the wreaths appear to be die cast as oppsed to struck hence you get such variety in the flawing and finishing on the reverse. I think some variance in detail is to be expected in consequence.

[Patrick W]

https://www.emedals.com/nsdap-genera...dge-1925-g2309


this will be the emedals badge referred to- it has a Niemann expertise and he shut up shop early 2010 so that badge pre-dates then.

[Gary Symonds]

I own an enamel 1923, a paint 1923, and an enamel 1925, which is illustrated in Gottlieb's Gau badge book.

This is a well worn paint original 1925 Common Gau Badge.

I see no red flags.

[JoeW]

Thanks for the thoughts guys, I saw that thread on the other forum and can't put the link together with my badge and the Lakesidetrader example how they are the same fake as the ones that started that thread- they are completely different to my eye!

Patrick, for starters, both yours and the first in Matt's thread and the Lakesidetrader example have round metal stock used to the pin, rather than the flat stock used on others. In addition, yours and the one shown by Matt have identical markings on the pin retainer device and rivets. It looks like the Lakesidetrader example has some marks on the top of the retaining device. And all three have what I view as identical finishes to the reverse of the swaz and wreath.

My badge weighs in at 17.1g so heavier than yours by a fraction which is a good sign I think. Also the thing about the pin- if you look at the picture you can see the area where the gap is has been impacted with pliers or something similar- in fact it is slightly twisted which causes the small gap, the rest is tight..

I can see what you are referring to with the marking on the pin seeming to indcate twisting. Still, it is round and that differs from others.

From handling a number of these in the past the wreaths appear to be die cast as oppsed to struck hence you get such variety in the flawing and finishing on the reverse. I think some variance in detail is to be expected in consequence.

I can't comment on the cast as opposed to stuck point you make. I will try and view mine under microscope to see if any tell-tale marks are evident.

Different opinions make this an interesting forum.