HJ GOLDEN BADGE ... opinions, please

[pep]

hello. I have no experience on these badges. just purchased this one to display on a tunic.
features a serial number 9105 + ges.gesch. + RZM symbol + M1/70

would like to get your thoughts about.

[Bob Hritz]

Currently, all M1/70 HJ Honor Badges are considered to be post war copys.

Bob Hritz

[Wim Vangossum]

Indeed this one is not good.

[pep]

wim,
I heard about the controversy about the M1/70. some collectors feel good with and others don't.
why this one is bad for sure?

[Gary Symonds]

wim,
I heard about the controversy about the M1/70. some collectors feel good with and others don't.
why this one is bad for sure?

Just another collector myth, courtesy of Jo Rivett.

We were all blind, until Jo showed us the light.

[Jo Rivett]

wim,
I heard about the controversy about the M1/70. some collectors feel good with and others don't.
why this one is bad for sure?

Plenty of threads about these, here is the last.... http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...hlight=M1%2F70
If you have heard about the "controversy" then you have also read the threads.
If you havn`t, then you should.

If you have "no expirience on these badges" as you claim, and bought it to pin onto Teddy only, then pin it on and be happy. You obviously would not have paid full price for a badge you have no expirience with.

If you did, pay full price for a badge you have no expirience with, well..............

[pep]

thanks a lot for your help.

it's worriyng to see that these badges reach so high quality to cheat collectors who didn't deeply learn about a single type of badge.

mainly I collect tunics and documents. I try to learn concerning awards in general to display correctly my tunics. lately, high quality fakes, forces collectors to be "experts" in your main collecting field and "forget" about the rest if you want to save money.

refund has been requested.

[DanCz]

I daresay Pep that many collectors - myself included - - have been deceived by these M1/70 marked badges - and I have been collecting some 50 years now - - indeed I see that Weitze is currently offering an example for sale. I recall reading somewhere that Joe Rivett - a regular contributor here - - knows who made them.

Is all a great shame and causes untold and lasting damage to whatafter all is a hobby.

[Gary Symonds]

I daresay Pep that many collectors - myself included - - have been deceived by these M1/70 marked badges - and I have been collecting some 50 years now - - indeed I see that Weitze is currently offering an example for sale. I recall reading somewhere that Joe Rivett - a regular contributor here - - knows who made them.

Is all a great shame and causes untold and lasting damage to whatafter all is a hobby.

Maybe, just maybe, Weitze does not buy this latest news from Jo Rivett.

How could this "fake" have been in plain sight for all these years, and nobody realized it?

As I understand it, Rivett is claiming that since there is no matching Urkunde from a HJ member with this badge, that somehow proves the M1/70's are fake.

Considering that all of these are numbered in a small range from 8000-9000, and we know most badges did not survive with the Urkunde, I know it is blasphemy to question Mr. Rivett, but I do.

These badges are consistent with period materials, and assembly, and that is why Weizte is listing one as original.

Guys, think for yourselves, don't let Rivett do your thinking.

[Jo Rivett]

thanks a lot for your help.
it's worriyng to see that these badges reach so high quality to cheat collectors who didn't deeply learn about a single type of badge.

It gets worse with the HJ Ehrenzeichen, much worse. There are fakes that date back to the late 1960`s, with the very first fake being shown as genuine by Littlejohn in 1968!
And it continues along the strange path, with new fakes turning up on a regular basis. There is even a plastic fake, made from epoxy - not epoxy enamel, an epoxy resin badge! ...that i also see for sale as genuine from time to time. And the Deschler M1/52 A. - a fake i found last year, never seen before.

The quality is only "so high" when you look at a 2cm badge in your hands... when you subject that badge to a thourough microscopic analysis, you see that the quality is in fact not high at all.

[Peter J.]

"There is even a plastic fake, made from epoxy"

Here's what Dodkins&Littlejohn wrote on that topic in 1968

cheers
Peter

[pep]

It gets worse with the HJ Ehrenzeichen, much worse. There are fakes that date back to the late 1960`s, with the very first fake being shown as genuine by Littlejohn in 1968!
And it continues along the strange path, with new fakes turning up on a regular basis. There is even a plastic fake, made from epoxy - not epoxy enamel, an epoxy resin badge! ...that i also see for sale as genuine from time to time. And the Deschler M1/52 A. - a fake i found last year, never seen before.

The quality is only "so high" when you look at a 2cm badge in your hands... when you subject that badge to a thourough microscopic analysis, you see that the quality is in fact not high at all.

yes. not usual YET using microscope to collect militaria. seems that collectors must start invest in analysis tools to try to void fakes.
good eye is not enough lately.

[DanCz]

Peter J - you make a good point - I had forgotton all about Littlejohn and Dodkins !! - whilst I been collecting NSDAP and Civil awards these past 50 years or so I have never seen an example made from plastic, however I do have a couple of examples of "tinnies" made from plastic. Here in England cap badges were made from bakelite during the last war as an economy measure - - - some are scarce but several can be found and are interesting addition to a collection.

[Peter J.]

Sure thing Don, bakelite, amber or what not existed, but I still haven't seen the pieces they referred to. It might seem strange to collectors of today, but the ignorance in the 60's was rather stunning. An article from the mid-60s in the "The Medal Collector" (OMSA) provided a badge with the typical Souval bent back catch, the were totally unaware of this feature at the time.

Pep, if you view yourself as a serious collector and fancy making your own opinion on something, yes you better walk that path. If you're content with what the general community accept as original and being possible to sell, well then it's a matter of collecting by proxy (IMHO)

cheers
Peter

[Jo Rivett]

....but I still haven't seen the pieces they referred to.

You missed the plastic offerings last year? Link seems "down". There was also a plastic Luft or Navy award offered at Mundomilitaria last year.

Plastic is fantastic