Fake? Hitler, ludendorff bagde

[Mike Pinkus]

2

[Don Scowen]

Great thread ... though i do not like the pin plate on the ones pictured.....i think this one has a chance of being real...i do not think the RZM mark is a sign of being good or bad...i believe these are in the same category as the deutchland erwach and adolf hitler pins, that we have had discussion in the past about.....
mike
http://enamelsofwar.homestead.com

I agree with Mike regarding this being a great thread, but RZM's aside, the shape of the pin keeper in the first two badges would preclude me from going anywhere near them...... Sorry.

Cheers
Don

[sjl]

Great to see the Steinhauer & Luck scan. I've always wondered about these badges. They're not in the Assmann catalog.

I still think we're looking for an original example though. I'm with Don and Mike about the tell-tale narrow pin plate - the sure landmark of a fake. Also M1/129 is a notorious fake reverse.

[jscott]

Great to see the Steinhauer & Luck scan. I've always wondered about these badges. They're not in the Assmann catalog.

I still think we're looking for an original example though. I'm with Don and Mike about the tell-tale narrow pin plate - the sure landmark of a fake. Also M1/129 is a notorious fake reverse.

Just a matter of time.

[Matthew Greer]

My two cents

Hello All:

I am still new to this hobby so I am not sure what features to look for, but a little historical back ground might help. I know that by 1933 when Hitler was appointed chancellor, Ludendorff had become totally turned off by Hitler and the party. He had infact warned Reichs President Hindenburg against Hitlers bid for chancellor, stating that he feared that Hitler would bring Germany more destrucion and ruin if he gained power. This would explain why you never see any post 33 pics of Hitler and Ludendorff together. This would also explain why these pins are not in the latter Assmann Catalog but in the earlier Steinhauer & Luck Catalog. So my two cents worth says that all these pins are more than likely fakes since they have an RZM stamp and code. Hitler and the party had a habbit of discarding anyone or anything that would hinder or tarnish their efforts. Just ask Ernst Rohm.

Again this is just my two cent:
Matthew Greer

[Kyle Harrington]

RZM and historical developments

I cannot for the life of me see how Hitler post 1933 would countenance his name
being associated with the old general.By this time L'dorf's crankiness was excrutiating even for those who were with the fairies as it were.Whist being bang on the money re Hitler , his erstwhile comrade wanted zip to do with him.
I would state that if it is RZM its a fake...out and out.I would imagine anyone associated with flogging these would have risked a trip to Dachau.

[williwo]

Niemann have had an original badge some time ago. With NO RZM-mark!


Some more background:
In 1933 the Ludendorff organisations "Tannenbergbund" and "Deutschvolk" were forbidden by the NS-Government.

[VerKuilen Ager]

While the General's merry rants in Ludendorffs Halbmonatschrift were an embarrassment, the old fellow was hardly the pariah that's being suggested. He was able to go on publishing his mag years beyond 1933 and a nice contingent of Party hacks lined up to tender honors on the occassion of his 70th birthday. Probably the continued respectful showing was because of the Army, who stood by him in force. No less than Reichswehrminister von Blomberg and the Chef der Heeresleitung Generalleutnant von Fritsch gave b'day speeches while a full parade passed in review and a squadron of fighters did a fly-by. This in 1935. When he died two years later he still rated a big state funeral and remembrance as a "great patriot".

[VerKuilen Ager]

Here's another 1935 birthday shot of Ludendorff chewing the fat with SA Brigadeführer Lohbeck.

[marc b]

Hi everyone,

Party pins are not my thing! I have a few (some are for sale) but since someone told me yesterday they might be wrong,
I'm not sure anymore.
I've been reading these opinions, so I think the best is I post some pics of them.
First is a "Ludendorff pin"
Second is a "Hitlerbewegung"
Thanks,
Marc

[marc b]

reverse

[marc b]

HITLERBEWEGUNG

[marc b]

reverse

[sjl]

Sorry to say the RZM M1/4 badges are notorious fakes. The same reverse is used for the fantasy "SS Civil Badge" and the "Deutsche Arbeiter-Jugend" early HJ badge.

The markings on the Austrian badge (Hitlerbewegung) are correct, but the badge has been heavily faked as well. Hard to say from the photo, but the enamel work and wording don't look too good.

[Matthew Greer]

Hello VerKuilen:

Let me clarify what I stated with regards to Ludendorff and the Party. By the time Hitler became Chancellor, Ludendorff himself was not as big a supporter of Hitler as he had been in 1923. Ludendorff feared what France and Britian might do if Hitler came to power and started throwing off the shackels of Versailles. He was afraid that Hitler would envolve them in a war more destructive for Germany than the Great War had been. While it is true that some party members still paid tribute to him, and they gave him a state funeral this was part of the Prussian tradition. Hitler built his party on tradition, yet I still have not seen a post 33 photo of Hitler with Ludendorff. As for the Army High Command giving Ludendorff birthday wishes, this is a sign of respect, and is again tradition. Besides it is known that Hitler did not care for many of the early Army officers like Von Blomburg & Von Fritsch to him they were not the yes men lackies like Keitel and Jodl were during the war. I do not mean to state that Ludendorff was totaly shunned by Germany after 33, but, I don't think he was embraced to the point of the party making a commemorative pin for him either.

Again my own two cents.

Matthew Greer.

While the General's merry rants in Ludendorffs Halbmonatschrift were an embarrassment, the old fellow was hardly the pariah that's being suggested. He was able to go on publishing his mag years beyond 1933 and a nice contingent of Party hacks lined up to tender honors on the occassion of his 70th birthday. Probably the continued respectful showing was because of the Army, who stood by him in force. No less than Reichswehrminister von Blomberg and the Chef der Heeresleitung Generalleutnant von Fritsch gave b'day speeches while a full parade passed in review and a squadron of fighters did a fly-by. This in 1935. When he died two years later he still rated a big state funeral and remembrance as a "great patriot".