Hitler Youth Photo Portraits Discovered in Clearance

[yellow]

Hi,

Just thought I would drop in from the Brit forum to show these to you.

I just removed these photo negatives from a house clearance. Had them developed and they all appear to be what I think is Hitler Youth???

Can anyone tell me anything about them and would any collectors be interesting in purchasing photo negatives rather than photos themselves?

Thanks for your help,

Steve.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Steve, although the pics are a bit fuzzy I think they are young members of the SS. The belt buckles look like the SS pattern. The armband is not the HJ pattern either.


Cheers, Ade.

[Jason G]

He kinda looks like an SS Junkerschule candidate (early) to me. Maybe Allegemine SS?
Jason

[Matthew Greer]

HJ div of SS?

Hi all:

Just a thought but could these boys be members of the 12 SS Pz. Div. "Hitlerjugend". I would definatly say in any case that they are SS members and not pure HJ members, Uniform,Armband are definatly SS style. I don't know at what age the SS started taking recruits, perhaps someone who has studied the SS a little more could answer this.

Just my two cents.
Matthew Greer

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Matthew, these guys will not be members of the "Hitlerjugend" Division. By 1943 when the division was formed the black SS tunic had fallen into disuse. Early members of the unit who went to pre military training at age 16 wore the standard Waffen SS M43 tunic with the HJ armband.

Waffen SS membership was open to anyone aged 17.

Cheers, Ade.

[Bob Coleman]

Ade-
One of the first things I noticed about these young men was their youth. Secondly, there are no collar tabs worn on the uniform. To me, it appears that the buckle being worn in the SA pattern buckle, which had many uses in the early days. My thoughts are these young men are students, possibly early members of either the NPEA or AHS. I doubt they are SS members due to their age. I believe the tunics to be a darker brown and not black. They are interesting images. Too bad the details are blurred.
Bob

[yellow]

Many thanks for all your help chaps.

From your reponses I am still confused as to actually what I am looking at.


I thought the shoulder board over the cross belt would of provided some clues? Black and white stripes???

Some of the photos are blurred due to poor photography. I also developed them on a cheap 50 pound negative scanner so their will be an improvement in quality if this is done professionaly, the image I have posted is also compressed.

I will post an uncompressed example to help you ID the buckle tonight.
Steve.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Thanks Steve. Like Bob says a good clear image of the belt buckle would help with a more positive id

Cheers, Ade.

[yellow]

I`m really sorry chaps I think I need better equipment. Does look like there is an eagle over the wreath but it is still blurry.

Regardless, I`m going to let them go, not at all my field of collecting these are probably better left to an expert who knows how to develop antique negatives with out damaging them.

Thanks again for all your attention and detective work.

Steve.

[walt]

I'm certainly no expert, but you can see they are wearing SS armbands, and it also looks like they have black and white piped collars. Is it possible they are wearing plain black collar tabs that don't show up against the black tunic in these photos?

[Arran]

I think these fellows are almost certainly Allgemeine SS in the 1930-1933 period, before the existence of the NPEA or AH Schools- black stripes to the armband borders, single black/white twiscord shoulder strap, cufftitle (second pic). In fact, apart from the absence of collar tabs, these uniforms are textbook Allg. SS. Some of the tunics appear to possibly have a 3 button front as opposed to 4, which was not uncommon prior to 1933-34, and the wear of lace-up boots suggests an early date as well. They're probably fresh recruits around 18 years of age...

Cheers,
Arran.

[Bob Coleman]

These images are much to fuzzy for me to agree that the armbands have the black stripe on the top and bottom. Maybe it is just my old eyes. I also feel these young men are more likely 14-16 years of age, too young to be SS members. The early party organizations had much cross over in uniform styles. Note the sloppy way one of them is wearing his belt and buckle offcenter. never something I would expect even from a young SS recruit. I would also expect a SS man to have a headcover of some sorts for an outside photo. My thoughts still run to student organization.

Bob

[Matthew Greer]

Hello all:

I will retract my earlier suggestion about 12th Pz. Div, I don't know what I was thinking. I still belive that they are members of an SS unit probally Allegemeine, but just to play it safe I will review a video doucmentary of HJ that aired on the History channel a year or so ago. If I see anything like the above photos I will let the group know.

I should have an answer by tomarrow night. "I hope"

Matthew Greer

[Bob Coleman]

I do not believe these tunics are black. Compare the darkness of the leather of the belts against the tunic color. The tunic is much lighter. I have many old photographs of SA men in wool tunics in which the tunics look much darker than they are in reality. The quality of these photographs is also extremely poor. The shoulder board style and pattern was not restricted to the SS but was used in much greater quantity by the SA, including black and white. In the early days of the NSDAP, the SS was a bodyguard unit for the leaders of the party. They were comprised of mature men, many with combat experience from the First World War. Boys such as these, if old enough, would have been relegated to the SA. I still think these young men are from some form of early youth related group.

Bob

[sjl]

My guess (and just a guess) - Allegemine SS recruits in an early boot camp. They have not yet been given a rank or assigned a unit, hence no collar patches. Notice the non-regulation lace up boots - something you didn't see much of after 1934.

Then again, I'm not an SS guy. Others will know better.