This one came in with some other items, not my specific field so please can I ask for some comments,
Thanks
Jon
Thanks
Jon
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Angles... -
Jon,
I have not done much research on these but do have several DAO's in my own collection.
IMO this one is a fake.
StanComment
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Hi Jon, I've been studying these with a view to getting one and (sadly) I agree with StanOriginally posted by Stan View Post
The eagles differ from an original for starters and it looks to have lots of tiny casting pits.
Is it proof stamped ?
IanComment
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After studying the medal I have come to the conclusion that we were wrong.
This model is a original medal !!
It is the right model of 1937
The medals with marking (835 PR.MÜNZE BERLIN and legend in Gothic characters belong to the period 1939-1943
The medals are Latin legend with the period 1943-1945
I've been studying this medal particularly since I bought it in order to investigate the details and after seeing the medal in hand, see it under a microscope, checking weights, measurements, characteristics and markings I could conclude that it is genuine medal 1937.
I bring a series of tests:
1- Until now we thought the silver medal in 37 of the German Eagle Order was the we all knew with legend in Gothic lettering arched cross and smooth malt and marking (935PR.MÜNZE BERLIN ... but after seeing and compare eagles and other details of the categories of 37, you come to the conclusion that something is wrong with this as all categories of 37 shared the same medal eagles least we thought 37 with more own style or manufacturer eagles Godet Münze ... Look:
These are the Eagles having 37 different categories ... Look at the medal ... differ in shape from the others right?
If we now compare the eagles of the other categories 37 and the true medal of 37, see if you agree design
Eagles medal 39 (left) typical of Godet, Munze and MÜMZANT and Eagles medal 37 (right) tipical of.............Deschler?
If we focus on the markings of the other categories we see the Grand Cross, Order with Star and 2nd category show "SILBER 900", the Knights and third class show "900" in the lower-profile part of the cross.
The medal that so far we said was 37 shows the marking (935PR.MÜNZE BERLIN authorized to produce the medals in 1939, however this medal shows the consistent marking "900" in the low profile of the medal
For more evidence, we can see this documentary evidence published in the encyclopedi contemporary "DAS DRITTER REICH" where we see the different categories of the Order of 1937, including but low resolution, the medal in silver with smooth center and dotted and identical cross eagles sisters from the same period
Another evidences:
The user Aenobarbo as the same model with case and Detlev Niemans cetificate (Expertise)
A veteran collector of USA as a great collections of the German Eagle Order and a copy of this model of medal in silver since many years
Therefore, according to my theory and my irrefutable evidence for the true medal 37 is this model:
While the medals with Gothic characters marking (PR 935. Munze BERLIN are manufactured after the new regulation of 1939 when, among other things, Adolf Hitler authorizes manufacturing orders Eagle with Swords to be granted to military personnel or services military. It is in this regulation when you start seeing the typical eagles Godet and "fan" of suspension in the new design of the Order, there are also exactly the same with swords and without swords in every detail, design and markings have no logic ..... medal which 37 were all believed and, from 1939 changed the design of all categories fewer medal but leaving it exactly matches if we know it was in 1937 other manufacturer (Many collectors we are inclined to think it was Deschler and, from 1939 to manufacture and MÜMZE Godet is awarded for its new design incorporating, among other improved suspension with ring just before and now reinforced fan and ball as many of the orders of 37 ended with unsoldered only ring when the attachment point of the award mientra the fan and the upper ball where the ring is inserted give much more weight to the suspension of the Order.
Well I hope you understand what I meant. I feel my little knowledge of English .... I had to help a translator online and a bit of my limited knowledge of the languageComment
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Another examples of this model:
Comment
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Hi Jesus,
For years I've been trying to suggest to you that facts involved with the DAO are NOT written in stone, it's good that you've finally opened your mind
I'm only curious about which aspects you used in order to have this revelation make sense.
The sketched images in the "Das Dritter Reich" are not sharp enough to confirm if the cross on the medal is indeed pebbled. A 2nd problem is the illustration of a 6-pointed Gross Kreuz. This GK was clearly identified an 8-pointed star in the regulation in Uniformen Mark from 1937. Apparently even contemporary publications can't be used as 100% relevent info.
cheers
PeterComment
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I have always agreed with his statement .... not everything is written and there are always variations and models that do not know 100% for lack of documentation expressing lost during the conflict. Perhaps you feel that I did not agree with this statement by the apparent problems between you and ignorance of our language.Originally posted by Peter J. View PostHi Jesus,
For years I've been trying to suggest to you that facts involved with the DAO are NOT written in stone, it's good that you've finally opened your mind I'm only curious about which aspects you used in order to have this revelation make sense.
The sketched images in the "Das Dritter Reich" are not sharp enough to confirm if the cross on the medal is indeed pebbled. A 2nd problem is the illustration of a 6-pointed Gross Kreuz. This GK was clearly identified an 8-pointed star in the regulation in Uniformen Mark from 1937. Apparently even contemporary publications can't be used as 100% relevent info.
cheers
Peter
I admit that until I did not have a example in my hands to study, believed that the 1937 version of the medal was that everyone took for official. I think I have provided sufficient evidence for this is not to say more, but I invite you to purchase a medal like the one show for you to investigate in hand and see how it comes to the same conclusion I did.
A hug friend PeterComment
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Hi Jesus,
+400 viewers and only you and I seem to be interested in this topic. I'm not suggesting your wrong in your coclusion about this medal, on the contrary I think it's a good piece. My only reservation is the "proof" you present i.g. an illustration of drawings not sharp enough to determine anything (at least what I can see on my monitor).
I've ordered your new book and will read it carefully, perhaps there is more to find there. I'll then respond on a constructive manner.
many hugs
Peter
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Originally posted by Peter J. View Post
If you carefully read my previous answer, you will see that I have not only based on simple drawings .... they are many coincidences and details that made me think that it was an original, among others:
The 1-medal weighs correctly, as other known medals.
2-have the appropriate diameter of 38 mm, as dictated in the regulation of 1937.
3-Match 1937 drawing appeared in the German CONTEMPORARY Encyclopedia "DAS REICH DRITTER"
4-The form of eagles (head, wings, Swastika, etc) coincides perfectly with eagles other views in the other categories of 37 that some attribute for other collectors to Deschler (this latter is not yet sufficient evidence to show)
5-It is made of very pure silver (grade 900) and not in any other material as with most fakes.
6- There are very few copies for sale. When the trouble to produce fakes and manufacture a matrix to do so perfect, the scammer is not limited to making 10, 20, 30 copies. To capitalize on the work done so perfectly, would build hundreds of copies distributed for sale in many places as with Souval copies of poor quality. In my time as a collector of this Order I seen about 5-6 copies as much at the hands of veteran collectors and none or almost none for sale.
7-The spelling of letters on the reverse of the medal is matched 100% with what we see in the model 1939 (marked medal (PR 835. Munze BERLIN.
8- No logic 1937 all categories have the same details of form and yet presented a medal eagles with head, body, swastikas and other details totally different but also features fully agree with the eagles which later appear in models made by Godet so it follows that the design of these eagles is to 1939 when it begins to produce the model we know attributed to Godet and Haupmünzant in the case of 1939-1943 silver medals.Comment
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