nsdap silver party badge

[Jo Rivett]

...... is the BPK image credited to the Hoffmann Archives,

Ooer, would this be thee Hoffmann? The man who carved a multi million dollar living out of selling Hitler Memorabilia during the Third Reich? The Hoffmann who we now know doctored photos for Hitler zu Lebzeiten? The Hoffmann who had his millions confiscated after the war and tossed in chokie? That Hoffmann?
I wonder what he did after he was released? Probably gave up what he had been doing for the past 25 years - Getting rich off the sale of Adolf Hitler memorabilia - and became a string bean farmer. Don`t quote me on that, it may have been runner beans!

[Matthew]

The only photo known of her showing a badge that is clearly recognizable, is a NUN ERST RECHT BADGE.

This is Matthew supposedly quoting Jo Rivett. Well, I don't really know where that exact quote comes from

It comes from the first page of this very thread.

[Matthew]

Hoffmann- the first faker of the 3rd Reich.

More logic from my favorite poster.

Hoffmann was nefariously manufacturing those fakes prior to 1945 but at the same time 'The most knowledgeable enamel badge collector' traced it back to 1968- the year those 'entered the hobby'.
Guess, they were on hold for the other 23 or so years. Maybe Purgatory? Waiting room?

[Dietrich Maerz]

I surely understand that it is sometimes hard to discuss controversial issues - but that is what makes the hobby so interesting!
In my experience a lot has been discovered by tough discussions and the hobby has greatly benefitted from these discussions!

However, what I do NOT understand is how one can discuss a topic that is argued in a book and admitt at the same time that one has not read the book (in addition to a very - let me be polite - "unusual" discussion style). Maybe it is only me, but I would never argue about something I have not informed myself thouroughly before I make a comment or an argument. If I can't or if I am not willing to inform myself, I also would not take "Plan B" and dismiss the author as not worthy of my attention.

but, since I am interested, could somebody explain to me why it is so clear that Silver Party Badges existed? Is the photo the evidence?

And please, gentlemen, behave!

(If a photo is used in a discussion as a vehicle of education or such, there is no violation of any copyright (if there is even one in existence. I doubt that Ullstein has the "real' rights, menaing the original slides plus the bill of sale from the photographer). A violation happens when people (and there a lot of idiots like that) snatch clearly copyrighted photos from the Internet and publish them in order to make money. So any discussion here about copyright is meaningless. It might be a question of politness in quoting the source, not more.)

[Dietrich Maerz]

Dear Matthew,

would it be possible for you to explain your point of view in clear and understandeable English sentences without any undelying attacks, sublime messages, and so on. Just plain good old facts? For the sake of the dicussion!

Dietrich

[Röhm1929]

Yes indeedy. The Hoffmann photo of the supposed "Hitler-Nachlass" is the one I am talking about. As mentioned by J Rivett, Hoffmann wasn't squeaky-clean so there is immediately "ein Elefant" in the room. Is that photo to be taken at face-value? He even went to the trouble of photographing the reverse of the badge for us. How convenient! A Hitler personal diary? Really? With Bormann never more 50 microns away from the Führer's side?

[slados28]

It comes from the first page of this very thread.

No... --- the below is the "exact" quote, as posted by Rivett (the one I rightfully struggled to match to your deliberate misquote):

The only photo known of her showing a badge that is clearly recognizable, is a NUN ERST RECHT BADGE.

How is that the same as saying, and I quote Matthew's deliberate misquotation of Rivett once again:

the ONLY CLEARLY VISIBLE BADGE as worn by Mitford was the NER pin.

How is "recognizable" the same as "visible"? Try to get your quotes right the next time you want to be cute. And. sorry to say this, but we have all seen the other photos of Unity, some dating back to the early thirties, wearing a similar looking sympathizer badge... way before the supposed awarding of the badge in question --- what's your point and where's the relevance to this AH silver badge?

And now I see you're quoting me once again --- try thinking about what that quote says in this context instead of blindly molding it to suit your own agenda. You can OF COURSE prove it did not exist during the period simply by using logic (to a more than sufficient extent) simply by examining the item itself and coupling that with the absence/lack of credible proof to the contrary. I was referring to the existence of a single piece of evidence/physical proof, if you will, proving the badge's non-existence during the period being impossible to put forth.
This whole thing is kind of like religious people asking atheists for actual proof of God's non-existence... there isn't any, of course, but the ABSENCE of proof of actual existence still speaks for itself ---

Either way, in this case the burden of proof is on you--- no matter how hard you try to discredit others using silly ad hominems, obfuscation and/or deliberate misquotations. But I guess nothing new will appear as the hard evidence is eyes only...

[Jo Rivett]

yes this is getting ridiculous, I see an interesting topic, some questions raised and I gotta buy a $100. book to get an answer?!
Jo I'm sure the book is wonderful, I don't own any pins anymore and the interest is not warranted me buying the book...
Maybe a short paraphrase from you, or someone that has it for us?

I'm kind of surprised it was only traced back to 68. But that was a time when 3rd reich collecting really started taking off,,or at least in my area. I bet a certain high end collector in L.I. NY had one, and the CA. guys too!

Gaspare, i am sorry but i missed your post completely. I havnt been back to this thread much, and certainly not to re-read anything either. But i tell you what, if you dont mind a copy that is a bit, well let`s just say a bit strange i`ll send you one for free. PM me your addy and i`ll have it signed and in the post to you on Monday.

[Matthew]

First and foremost: Silver (Grade) Party Badge is different from Party badge for Foreigners. Then we have Hitler's personal token of appreciation in the form of a badge.
Which one is it you want to discuss?

[Dietrich Maerz]

The thread is about the Silver Party Badge.

[Matthew]

The original poster described two different badges in his first post.

[Matthew]

this thread is about silver party badge.

Richard,

So called silver party badges are Deumer wreathed badges (big and small) that are finished silver. They are not actually made out of silver.
The non-descripted party badges that bear Hitler's signature on the verso are commonly referred to as the Party Badges for Foreigners. Those ones are said to be made out of silver as base and finished in gilt (gold).

cheers

Matt

[Thomas Durante]

Would it be possible for you to explain your point of view in clear and understandeable English sentences without any undelying attacks, sublime messages, and so on. Just plain good old facts? For the sake of the dicussion!

As a relative newcomer to the Political sub-forum, I too would be very interested in hearing the facts in this case. I obviously don't own one of these badges, but would like to hear the case for and against this type of badge. I haven't read Jo's book yet, but have recently purchased a copy and look forward to reading his side of the discussion. For Matt and those others that like this badge and think it is wartime, please lay out the facts and evidence that lead you to support the badge being wartime.

As far as Jo, Röhm1929, Garry M. and ZEN all being the same person, that doesn't seem to be the case judging by my IP search this morning. All have different IP addresses. Furthermore, there is no member "ZEN".

Thanks guys, looking forward to a good discussion without bickering in my new found interest in Political badges.

Tom