Gold SA Treffen Braunschweig 1931 Badge

[Military]

Hi all,

I previously started an SA Treffen thread and the purpose was to put together variations of that particular badge. From that thread, we now know that there are 3 solid back versions and I would like to keep that thread as a record to identify variations. This is not a double post but a concentrated effort to discuss the gold badge, please.

I'm moving on to start a discussion about this gold variant. Some members have pointed out their concerns and this thread is meant to discuss just this badge alone. I welcome all feedback; and now having looked at it, some things don't seem to match. I must have missed this until members have pointed it out.

For now, my concerns centre on the flimsy pin set up and the S and R letters do not match. What other things have I missed out?

Thanks,
Mil

[Military]

[Military]

[ErichS]

Mil,

I agree with the concerns that you listed as well as no reference for a gold badge. What did WH tell you about it when you purchased it? I remember another dealer who had it before Wolfe and when I first saw it it just didn't sit well with me.

[Military]

Hi Erich,

I was told that the badge came from WH and it was supplied with a WH COA although not where I purchased it from. My intention is not to flame the previous keeper / seller but to focus on the study itself.

If we study the badge more carefully, there are signs on the reverse that it might have been in contact with something for a while. Not necessarily worn, perhaps just displayed, or possibly even artificially aged, no one knows. Just an interesting point I thought I'd raise.

The pin is the dead-giveaway I think.

Mil

[Richard]

Interesting badge. While the badge itself doesn't send up alarm bells immediately, the pin and gold color certainly give pause. The pin may also not be a big deal as a pin of any kind can be added to any badge needing one at any time by the owner and would not necessarily condemn the badge itself.

The gold color is most concerning to me. It appears over the last few years certain badges are suddenly popping up in gold, which is not backed up by any period literature or color photos. Why would there be a need for a gold badge in this instance? Dignitaries, important Party members, etc. have all been used as a possible need for any of the gold badges for which no mention exists in period documentation.

Of course one can't ascertain when this was gilded. It could have been yesterday or, if not an officially produced piece which was gilded pre 1945, would this even be allowed to be done by a proud owner if he/she did it to "jazz" it up. (pimp my badge).
Richard V

[Military]

Interesting badge. While the badge itself doesn't send up alarm bells immediately, the pin and gold color certainly give pause. The pin may also not be a big deal as a pin of any kind can be added to any badge needing one at any time by the owner and would not necessarily condemn the badge itself.

The gold color is most concerning to me. It appears over the last few years certain badges are suddenly popping up in gold, which is not backed up by any period literature or color photos. Why would there be a need for a gold badge in this instance? Dignitaries, important Party members, etc. have all been used as a possible need for any of the gold badges for which no mention exists in period documentation.

Of course one can't ascertain when this was gilded. It could have been yesterday or, if not an officially produced piece which was gilded pre 1945, would this even be allowed to be done by a proud owner if he/she did it to "jazz" it up. (pimp my badge).
Richard V

I have to agree with Richard that there's a disturbing pattern that "gold" awards that were once unknown are popping up. Perhaps similar to what we find combat badges being "emblazoned" with diamonds?

Mil

[Stan]

This is probably the same badge which Craig Gottlieb sold at auction last year. I didn't like it then and didn't place a bid. The one I really wanted was the SA Treffen in 800 silver but I was the underbidder.

Stan

[Military]

Stan is correct. It comes from CG auctions. I have no intention to nail crosses onto the seller or where it came from but to discuss the badge.

Stan, the silver one is nice and pictured in the other thread - http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=754538
You mentioned that you didn't like the one version - would you like to elaborate so we are here to discuss the badge on its own merit?
Thanks, Stan.

Regards,
Mil

[Br. James]

Like many of you, I have been at this hobby for 50+ years and have seen a number of unusual and unexpected items turn up suddenly, even after decades of certainty that no such things ever existed. So too with this SA Treffen in gold. It is an attractive piece, especially with the highlighted swaz, but it doesn't sit well with me, either. Richard has responded by voicing my own concerns, and the possibility of a military-style barrel hinge as a replacement for the cheaply-applied original pin is not a concern for me -- these badges were not designed to last for decades in regular wear. But there doesn't seem to be any residue of the original adhesive agent left from the original pin plate, though when that plate gave way, it should have left its mark on the gilt on the badge's reverse. Interesting...

Br. James

[Military]

Hi James,

Thanks for your input. At least we are in agreement that this badge has not had a good vibe and is surely a proper study on it. Perhaps in the near future we might see another of such a "gold variant" and it opens the starting point for comparisons and discussions to be made. Many thanks again for your input regarding your concerns.

Mil

[Military]

Hi all,

Just wanted to give an update regarding this badge. Obviously the comments have made me nervous. I've decided to return it to History Hunter Auctions / Craig Gottlieb Militaria Auctions which as we know is run by Craig Gottlieb. I emailed Craig, giving my reasons and in support provided the link today. This is the first time I have bought from the auction site and true to their word, the company protects against buyers purchasing something that is a reproduction. I must add that Craig and Vera have provided a good service for this. Vera has been very helpful and made the return process quick. To their credit, the refund has gone through even though I will be posting the item first thing tomorrow. I hope that perhaps this opens doors for the business.

Mil

[ErichS]

Hi all,

Just wanted to give an update regarding this badge. Obviously the comments have made me nervous. I've decided to return it to History Hunter Auctions / Craig Gottlieb Militaria Auctions which as we know is run by Craig Gottlieb. I emailed Craig, giving my reasons and in support provided the link today. This is the first time I have bought from the auction site and true to their word, the company protects against buyers purchasing something that is a reproduction. I must add that Craig and Vera have provided a good service for this. Vera has been very helpful and made the return process quick. To their credit, the refund has gone through even though I will be posting the item first thing tomorrow. I hope that perhaps this opens doors for the business.

Mil

A good move on your part and glad that the return and refund process was done without repercussions.