brooch with sort of sonnenrad?

[jabnus]

Hi Don,

Discussion, Always!

Seeing the last brooch you posted i regret not getting it myself after all. The thing is the seller beat me with getting a whole group of dozens of badges and after he offered them all again for sale one by one for much more money it left a bit of a bad taste. He did not show the reverse and now that you show it i like it even more.

This "R" character can mean a few things.

Here is a little piece on this character i wrote for my upcoming book. It is not related to brooches, but deals with the same character that was pre-1945 used for the Dutch (NSB) Vervoersfront ("Transportationfront"):

The Germanic name for the rune that is
depicted in the centre is Reda (Raidho), also
known as Rad (Radh) in Anglo-Saxon, Reið in
Icelandic and Reid (Reidr) in old Norse. It is the
fifth rune of the first ætt of the Elder Futhark.
It’s phonetic sound is “R”. Symbolically it can
be read as Raidho ~ Rad ~ Ride ~ Cartwheel ~
Wheel, and the ancient meaning of the Raidho
rune is that of journey or travel. In a broader
perspective it can also be read as “communication”.
In the ancient Germanic lands was travel
treacherous and much longer in duration to the
extreme. Communication was literally an important
factor for the traveller making a long
physical journey...blablabla

[Capt. R]

Thanks Gaston

Good info. I would like very much to get a copy of your book!

The R brooch with Gudrun on the back is the largest brooch I have seen personally! Here you can compare its size with other runic badges. You can also see how my interest in these has gotten a bit out of control.

[jabnus]

Hi Don,

Very nice, you're really going fast!

Reagarding the sizes: i have a few Dutch NSB wartime related brooches with a diameter of about 8 centimeters! They are HUGE, made of multiple pieces of different metal and looking amazing (and extremely rare!).

Here's a few more German ones of mine, you can see another "R" on third row from the top, second brooch.

Best regards,
Gaston

[Capt. R]

Gaston, your collection is wonderful! Especially all the runic pieces. I really like the Deininger examples.

[Dmv]

Didn't win it, but a nice photo of a brooch like mine in post 10 in wear.

[jabnus]

i won it and wanted to publish it.

im not amused to see it already here


Normally people steal my photo's after i post them here or on other fora, now already before i have even payed them Thanks a lot! I notice some people have a habit of doing this (it also happens a lot in the Freikorps section, which is the reason i don't post there much too. I have the brooch in the photo in it's original case (which is not the same at all if you knew what it was!) and thought this picture would look amazing together with it, but now it's already ruined and known.

[uscob]

I think, as it was shown in an auction, it was shown before to the public, so a lot of people saw it before and fo sure downloaded it.
To keep such things hidden, you only can do this in a private sale with only 2 people knowing the Stuff. That's what I did with my grand-grand Dads Pics from Cameroon. They're still unknown until I publish them with the original Report from his 1901-3 tour.

[Dmv]

Hello Gaston, at first congratulations winning it!

I had it happen too, but that's the internet: once out there on the net you can't stop this from happen. I'm sure I'm not the only one who "rightclicked".
For me it would be about owning the item, as you say to match it up with the pin.
At least I didnt post a running auction, that's a nono.
Now it's a good addition to this topic i.m.o. I/one can't know the agenda of everyone in the world regarding use of an item and I don't see why you can't publish it now...
Again, nice spot and catch!

[jabnus]

Really? Congratulations?

While i agree with Uscob that the net is a free place and for sure some people had seen the auction, they didn't post it literally 2 seconds after the auction. It really pisses me off to see the picture already here on the forum, THE only place where these items are currently being discussed. Pictures are different than medals, badges or whatever items, an unpublished picture has it's value as long as it's unpublished, once a digital copy is spread (like now) the original picture is totally worthless (as it is now) to publish as it is not exclusive anymore. This is also the reason why i hardly ever post any photo's from my photocollection anymore. There are so many topics on the forum at the moment (look e.g the Marshall baton thread, or some of the diamonds awards topics), where people's ownership is being given a very big middlefinger and their pictures are just being posted by people who don't respect ownership or copyright at all.

And sure, this photo IS a great addition to this topic, but i didn't even have the chance to post it myself, yet im the one who has to pay for it today when the invoice comes, so yes congratulations indeed to me for a picture that is now already ruined! This is one of the things in this hobby that is bigtime messed up and doens't exactly encourage people to collect or pay for rare stuff anymore.

Sorry for the rant, but i hate it when this happens. It's just not correct when someone isn't willing to pay for something themselves, and when they obviously lost the item still post it triumphantically on the forum and shout: " look what a great thing i found". The only congratulations here are thus for you, you messed up my picture and posted something rare, im sure you must feel happy now? I'd rather given the 50 dollar of this picture to charity then see it being digitaly stolen like this. Too often this is happening lately on the forum, there are even members who contrinute nothing original to the forum at all, besides posting thousands of pictures they stole from others (this is not aimed at you Michel).

*Sigh*. i suppose i better go out and have a good breakfast to calm down.

To end on a lighter note and try to stay positive: I got a lot of pm's about the Rykers case i posted above, maybe i post a few more cases tonight. It's good to see the interest in this area of collecting growing. Hopefully people at least enjoy the photo now. I wanted to publish it in my upcoming NSB book, but won't anymore now, so it's here on the forum only now (well untill more people steal it and post it elsewhere too).

Gaston

[Jan Holland]

The digital era

[Belten]

To be clear, you hold no copyright to the image you won at auction. The copyright belongs to the person who took the photo, or if that person created the photo and it didn't publish it, or did publish it but didn't include some claim to copyright (by attaching their name to it in some way) more than 70 years ago, then it's public domain. This photo obviously was not taken after 1945, but since 70 years have not yet passed since 1945, it's not necessarily public domain yet.

In any case, purchasing the photo at auction gives you absolutely no claim to copyright, and personally, I think it's a good thing that photos are openly shown and discussed. It's not enough to own it, but you also want to prevent others from seeing it? Surely that is not the spirit of cooperation and sharing information between collectors.

[Dmv]

Found these in the Potsdamer Bote 1942

[Michael Fay]

To be clear, you hold no copyright to the image you won at auction. The copyright belongs to the person who took the photo, or if that person created the photo and it didn't publish it, or did publish it but didn't include some claim to copyright (by attaching their name to it in some way) more than 70 years ago, then it's public domain. This photo obviously was not taken after 1945, but since 70 years have not yet passed since 1945, it's not necessarily public domain yet.

In any case, purchasing the photo at auction gives you absolutely no claim to copyright, and personally, I think it's a good thing that photos are openly shown and discussed. It's not enough to own it, but you also want to prevent others from seeing it? Surely that is not the spirit of cooperation and sharing information between collectors.

Hello Belten, while you espouse a popular common view of digital and image copyrights and the "spirit of sharing among collectors," it is not a universal view, nor is it set in stone as you describe it.
FOR INSTANCE
Please see one of the many debates on this subject below

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=714534

Some people need to keep projects under wraps till completion and publication. This is true in business, a new business model must keep it secret till it is unveiled-or it will not be profitable due to competing interests, so is a movie-scripts are guarded jealously , so is a University Press History book... The researcher must keep their project hidden till publication....as for militaria/collector type books: it has always been a huge draw to have unpublished images, that is why those books got advertised as such.
Whether or not it is nigh on impossible to enforce any protections does not make it OK to act like no one is opposed to it, or there are not serious issues and conflicts brought to the fore by this situation.

[juoneen]

Don't forget you own the lot...so who cares....you shouldn't buy just to forum for kudo's...you buy to own the stuff that tripps your trigger....take an adavn and chill...or take some time to burn , and put yer head under a bucket like in the first episode of Gomer pyle, and give it a "thank"...you'll be a thankin, and a thankin , and it really does help....but we all see your point....that's another reason to hunt the woodwork, you'll never have that hapen again if you do....as nobody will see anything you don't want shown. So don't let them "get yer Goat". (keep that goat tied up.) OH I forgot ...congratulations now do a blurb book on it, and make em pay to see the back instead of posting them here...that way they will have to pay and pay...and take a walk on the wild side.

[Belten]

Hello Belten, while you espouse a popular common view of digital and image copyrights and the "spirit of sharing among collectors," it is not a universal view, nor is it set in stone as you describe it.
FOR INSTANCE
Please see one of the many debates on this subject below

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=714534

Some people need to keep projects under wraps till completion and publication. This is true in business, a new business model must keep it secret till it is unveiled-or it will not be profitable due to competing interests, so is a movie-scripts are guarded jealously , so is a University Press History book... The researcher must keep their project hidden till publication....as for militaria/collector type books: it has always been a huge draw to have unpublished images, that is why those books got advertised as such.
Whether or not it is nigh on impossible to enforce any protections does not make it OK to act like no one is opposed to it, or there are not serious issues and conflicts brought to the fore by this situation.

Well, the fact is that the purchaser has no legal right to the image whatsoever (unless he also took the original photograph), and beyond that, it was published online for all to see, on the website from which it was purchased. I'm sure that no ill will was intended, and it seems to me that the person who posted the photo here was doing so for the benefit of his fellow collectors. Whenever any image is posted online, for sale or for any other reason, it can scarcely be argued that anyone without the benefit of copyright protection has some claim to it.

I stand by my original statement. While I understand the frustrations, it's a natural side effect of anything posted for sale online, and its being published here does not lessen the worth or impact of such an image.