Need help on this

[speedytop]

Hi taz3447,

- members badge of "Deutscher Siedlerbund" > for German settlers, up to 1945

- sports badge "Reichsjugendsportabzeichen" for boys > up to 1945

- "Deutsches Jugendsportabzeichen in Bronze mit Silberkranz" > for the age of 17 and 18 since 1952, for the age of 15 and 16 since 1956

Uwe

[taz3447]

Thank you very much for the input......help me greatly......

[Carsten135]

hey speedytop

Sorry for a late respons but a trip to Berlin visiting my friends has taken my time. Well arround the 57 models and whatever my personal opinion is, then lats takes the facts and nail it that its not a 57 model so no reson to discus that, but my question was not in that direction too but rather why its not a 57 model is only a friendly question to fill in the blanks.

what i find controversial is that sportsbadges is forbidden in the 57 katagory both bec the veterans must have felt a " gap " in the 57 inventory, as u know meny of these sportsbadges was a important matter both for the 1 and deff 2 world war soldiers/veterans besides that as i see the german sports history at the less criminal thing inflikting the war, meny of these badges dont even have the " verbote signale " during the 1 and 2 ww.
So basicly i find it much more provokative whit the RK,DKIG,GAB etc. in the 57 inventory then a simpel sportsbadge acording to § 86 looking from a collectors eyes.

Why i see it as a unorficcial 57 badge is enterily my opinion and for those who its intrested in that opinion is simpel bec i find this badge as the most compeddable to the badge who dosent excist in the 57 katagory " Gap " both in form, design and manufactor besides the sportsbadges was the first badges that emerged from the battered gemany at that time made by the same people, machines, and manufactores methods as during both 1 and 2 ww. like the 57 first pattern. it would actually be nice if we can compare the sports achivements in both the war and post war badge might be the same too, but its just a detail and taz urkunde book might carry the answear to that.

The only reson i find to the " gap " is that all these meny sports organisations was a part of the HJ organisation and ideoligy during the 2 ww. and therefore automaticly excluded from the 57 inventory acording to § 86.

So basicly my question is not arround the facts but the morality in the facts along whit comparring the fysics if you can see my point. And imm always open for a friendly conversation where all can learn

cheers in beers

[speedytop]

Hi Carsten135,

"... and nail it that its not a 57 model ..."


"... if we can compare the sports achivements in both the war and post war badge ..."

There is only one important difference for men in "Gruppe 5", 5,000m instead of 10,000m.
In the transitional phase, 1948 to 1951/1952, you could find different distances, 3,000m 5,000m and 10,000m.


"... what i find controversial is that sportsbadges is forbidden in the 57 katagory ..."

By the way noted, that in WW1 no sports badge existed. Only in 1913 and 1914 before the war, and then continued in 1919.

Before the German law from 1957 a working group existed for some years, discussing all these points for the new law.
The results of this committee were the basis for the regulations in the "Ordensgesetz" about the honorings of the Third Reich.
They decided, not to include the sports badges, and there are some reasons for this decision.
All the sports organizations had been indoctrinated by the Nazi party.
The old badge DRA could be worn without problems (some soldiers did it in the war time!).
New sports badges existed, in some regions since 1948, and since 1952 official and complete in the Federal Republic of Germany. Everybody could get the new badges.
And you could wear the new badge DSB instead of the old DRL badge.

There was no "gap" and no real need for the old badges, with or without the swastika.

Uwe

I prefer red wine

[Carsten135]

hey speedytop

Thanks for the explanation on the german decisions making after the war arround the sports and 57 models.

well besides the range from 10000 m to 5000 m is the major diffrence between the war time and post time badge is hopefully given you a slight idea why i see this badge as the most compeddable to the war time and as you wrote some did Wear this DSB badge instead of the wartime DRL badge along comparing the fysics, well the germans got soft in the post war time

As a serius collector i do find that both the SA sports leistungabz, along whit a big vararity of HJ sports achivements and not to forget the SS sports leistungabz as a very big " gap " in the inventory and then u can add all the civilians sports badges too, but this is only my opinion.

So i do NOT agree in that Theres is no gap, and i do belive that meny of the war time resipents didnt dare claim there achivements in these catagorys too.

well red wine makes me behave and look like a gorilla so ill stick to the germans beers.

cheers mate