Golden party badge

[Jon Fish]

So then the red leather GPB case,is it agreed that was for the special AH presentation badges that did come in a set of large and small? It would be very interesting to know how the 'standard' 22,000 people recieved the standard badges.

[Br. James]

I agree, Jon -- it would be very interesting to know how the standard, numbered GPBs arrived to their recipients...in a presentation case or a cardboard box or an envelope or...??

Personally, I'm still reeling from the revelation that the initial award of the GPB always came as a matched set -- large and small badges together -- and that they were given FREE from the NSDAP Treasurer's Office! Makes me wonder why the large badges sell for so much more than the small ones nowadays, assuming that they were from non-famous people! I had always assumed that there were many more of the small badges awarded than the large ones, making the large badges considerably more rare than the small ones, and therefore the much higher pricetag. But if the same number were awarded to each recipient, then there should be relatively the same number of large badges extant as the small ones. I guess this is just another example of "whatever the traffic will bear!"

Br. James

[ErichS]

I was always under the impression that the party charged for all the badges even the 1st awarding. Joe, do you have documentation showing that the 1st set was gratis? I don't think the party gave many things away including GPBs. I have to agree with James that the badges could be ordered in any quantity due to the fact that I have seen sets that consisted of two 30mms and one 24mm for example. It seems that money was tight in the early 30's and if you were not part of a uniformed organization why spend the money for a 30mm badge?

[JoeW]

Erich, I am searching for what I thought I had in documentation concerning the initial award of badges. Of course we know that Ersatz Abzeichens could be ordered from the Kartei-Ehrenzeichen Amt of Schwarz's Reichsleitung. But those cost extra. That would result in the creation of the odd sets you mention above of two large and a small or whatever the Alter Kampfer wanted. But that does not indicate to me that one had the option of ordering whatever they desired on the first go-around.

Money may have been tight, but the initial presentation was an important event and celebrated an Alter Kampfer. At RM1,50 each, I don't think we are talking a lot of money to be spent by the party in 1934. And if the party wouldn't give away the first two, would they have given away the BO? Or did they charge for those? Did the party charge for the Ehrenzeichen with Hitler's signature?

Remember the pair I bought that I tracked to the young man in Thuringia. He belonged to no uniformed organization, yet he had a large and small pin. And he ordered replacements too.

I will continue looking for that documentation for you Br. James. Der-hase-fee, have you found the documentation?

[Br. James]

Many thanks, Joe, and to Andreas, as well -- I hope one or both of you can find some documentation to support this question. Your point regarding the BO is well taken -- and I don't know whether the recipients had to pay for their awards or not -- but in that case we're only talking about 1,500 examples of each of the two issues, and I would assume that if anyone lost their First Issue BO or had it stolen, it could only be replaced by a Second Issue piece...? (There's another question: were replacement BOs numbered as the originals were or were they blank?) As to the AH honorary GPBs, here again I assume that they were awarded during a ceremony (at the Führerbau or the Chancellery or wherever Hitler happened to be at the time...?) and that all recipients would try their darndest to be present and receive their GPB from their Führer's hand.

Br. James

[ErichS]

James, as far as the BOs are concerned, second medals were most probably purchased and were unnumbered 2nd patterns as in the example of a Hermann Fobke tunic which had an unnumbered 2nd pattern BO attached to it. I have only seen a single example to date of a unnumbered 1st pattern BO. With that being said, I think there were two 1st pattern BOs around both bearing the number 61. There seems to be an exception to every rule.

[JoeW]

Many thanks, Joe, and to Andreas, as well -- I hope one or both of you can find some documentation to support this question. Your point regarding the BO is well taken -- and I don't know whether the recipients had to pay for their awards or not -- but in that case we're only talking about 1,500 examples of each of the two issues, ..........
Br. James

Only 3000+ examples of a medal that contained silver, was cased with ribbon and accompanied by a Bezitzurkunde and a presentation Urkunde that in the case of the second issue was in an elaborate presentation folder. Hardly the RM 2,50 for a pair of GPBs. I have documentation of GPB recipients paying for extra examples, but haven't located a notice of freebies yet.

[Br. James]

Thanks very much for the further detail on purchasing additional examples of the BO, Erich -- and I agree with you completely that we are bound to find the odd 'exception' in almost any area of so-called 'standardization,' even as we certainly do today! We often get sidetracked when these exceptions show up and we don't have original solid documentation to consult and fall back on, and that is surely a time-waster for any of us! I do find it interesting that, while it was obviously possible to order one or more replacement/additional GPBs, those replacements received were not blank on the reverse but were actually newly-completed examples of the original badge, including the member's number (or assumedly the "A.H." and award date on the honorary examples), whereas it would have been much easier and quicker to manufacture a number of spare GPBs -- without the reverse being completed -- and having them ready to send out to anyone who needed them. But that is NOT what they did! The GPB was apparently important enough to warrant making a brand new example of the needed badge each and every time one was ordered! As for the Blood Order -- which may be considered to be an even more prestigious badge than the GPB -- additional examples were sent out without going to the trouble of stamping the recipient's number onto the badge! Again, I find that interesting!

And thanks to you, too, Joe, for going to the trouble of trying to document whether GPB recipients had to pay for their original badges or not. There is also still the question, at least in my mind, of whether the originals were sent out to the recipients in pair sets or as individual badges. It may be helpful to ask how the original process of awarding the GPB was initiated -- did the NSDAP Treasurer's Office identify each member entitled to receive the GPB by researching their records and establishing who had kept up their memberships from their entry dates, and then order the original numbered badges and send them to the recipients, or was it up to the early members to apply for the GPB, either directly to FX Schwarz in Munich or via their local Gauleiter's Office, and at that point the researching of membership veracity was begun in Munich? Very interesting questions, each and every one!

Br. James

[steiner68]

Very interesting post

[der bingle]

Very interesting post

My G.P.B. W A S #243 an early one with no maker on back , from sawicki collection...the plating was entirely off so Ron Shepherd plated it for me free of charge. I unwisely traded it to Bill Rutledge. this was 1963, i was 15 years of age. good luck with your G.P.B. gentlemen, and keep em close!....by the way mine cost$30.............a lot in paperboy money!

[Wim Vangossum]

IMO they received both the small and the large one. If they had to pay for it or not, I don't know. With the Eleonore Blasius set that you guy's last linked togheter for me, the large badge showed clearly traces of wear. However, the small Deschler has not the slightest wear on the fire gilding and is IMO in unworn condition.

I do find it a bit weird that not a single collector ever found a carton box or small paper sac which contained the badges. It sounds allmost that you had to collect them from some office without any protective material around them.



Regards, Wim



Freedom is not for Free

[ErichS]

My set came in and were probably kept in this box by the original owner. You're right Wim, I have not seen a carton of issue unless they were presentation badges.

[Vid]

My set came in and were probably kept in this box by the original owner. You're right Wim, I have not seen a carton of issue unless they were presentation badges.

Beauties!!!

[JoeW]

The four or five personal files of GPB holders that I have researched over the years reveal the following procedure and documentation:

1. An individual prepared an Antrag auf Verleihung des Reichs-Ehrenzeichen (Application for Award of the National Honor Badge) and submitted it to their respective Gaugesschaeftsstelle (Gau Procedural Office) for processing. The application was verified with Gau records and then sent to the Reichsschatzmeister's office, more specifically the Kartei-Ehrenzeichen Abteilung. The application was verified with the membership lists in Munich. If everything was in order, the two badges were ordered and returned along with the Besitzurkunde to the Gau office for further disposition to the recipient. The Gau Konto Ehrenzeichen (Honor Badge Bank Account) was charged by the Reichsschatmeister's office by transfer. This Uberweisung procedure is still used in banking in Germany today. This procedure and terms used above are specifically spelled out in the documentation I have.

In the paperwork I found for one of my GPB Besitzurkunde, the above procedure was followed. In that particular instance, the applicant of was informed by the Gau that he did not have unbroken membership. The applicant protested the decision in July 1934 and the Gau asked the Reich file office if they had any information. The question was decided in Spring 1935 when the application was approved and badges were created. The Besitzurkunde and two badges were forwarded to the Gau for distribution to the individual and the Gau's account charged. I believe this demonstrates that two badges were distributed on first delivery. Subsequent requests for additional badges specified sizes and were charged to the individual's account in the end.

[ErichS]

I agree Joe, this is proof enough that two badges were sent out. Thanks for going the extra mile on this.