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**VerKuilen Ager** · 02-28-2004, 03:20 PM

Probably someone can be more definitive, and I'll probably be throwing out more questions than answers at this point, but here goes. Most original examples that I've seen had sun rays that were pretty much the same width (rather than distinctly wedge shaped, as in this example) and the strokes of the lettering were wider. The RZM mark on this one appears to be very non-standard, though it may just look distorted in the photo. Initially, I would have said this shouldn't even have an RZM mark because this was a very early insignia and pre-RZM. However, after digging a little deeper, it looks like this might have been used later on as a tradition badge for pre-1932 members, which means that any such reissues would likely have been RZM marked.

**James Noble** · 02-28-2004, 06:38 PM

Paul, Here's a picture of HJ-TRADITIONAL Badge 1932 I have that IM pretty sure is authentic it shows the type of sun rays VerKuilen is talking about as well as the font width used in the lettering. As to the duel markings on the reverse personally I don't care for them but I do know they are found on badges made in late 34 early 35 when the RZM mark came into use.

Attached Files

Deutsche Arbeiter a.JPG (49.2 KB, 227 views)

**RPN** · 02-29-2004, 07:09 AM

Thank you very much for responding James and VerKuilen .. I'll pass on your info to my friend here.

Cheers
Paul

**Mike Pinkus** · 02-29-2004, 06:55 PM

where did you find that it may have been issued as a tradition badge VweKuilen?

Originally posted by Paul Williams

Thank you very much for responding James and VerKuilen .. I'll pass on your info to my friend here.

Cheers
Paul

**James Noble** · 03-01-2004, 05:22 AM

Mike, Kai Winkler has one listed on his website # 2869 it's listed has a HJ Traditionsabzeichen (für Angehörige Vor 1932) it's also in R.Kahl's book Insignia, Decorations and Badges of the Third Reich he also calls it the same way.

**Mike Pinkus** · 03-01-2004, 02:01 PM

ok...ill bite...just never heard of that.i have to say with that information i think this pin is fine...i have seen screwed up RZM marks before...wish Frobler was around, i remember he did a big article on the different variations.
mike
http://enamelsofwar.homestead.com

Originally posted by jnoble

Mike, Kai Winkler has one listed on his website # 2869 it's listed has a HJ Traditionsabzeichen (für Angehörige Vor 1932) it's also in R.Kahl's book Insignia, Decorations and Badges of the Third Reich he also calls it the same way.

**James Noble** · 03-01-2004, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by Mike Pinkus

ok...ill bite...just never heard of that.i have to say with that information i think this pin is fine...i have seen screwed up RZM marks before...wish Frobler was around, i remember he did a big article on the different variations.
mike
http://enamelsofwar.homestead.com

Mike, I second that as to missing Frobler the loss of the information he provided on his website is sorely missed in the collecting community.

**Richardxyz** · 03-01-2004, 08:16 PM

Where is Frobler?

Originally posted by jnoble

Mike, I second that as to missing Frobler the loss of the information he provided on his website is sorely missed in the collecting community.

Not wanting to divert away from the subjest of the thread, but has anyone heard anything from Frobler recently. His website was superb and taught me a great deal, its a shame its gone. I just hope everything is okay with him.

**Eric Stahlhut** · 03-01-2004, 10:59 PM

Here's another style:

**Eric Stahlhut** · 03-01-2004, 11:02 PM

rev

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HJ enamel pin ... original?

HJ enamel pin ... original?

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