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**sjl** · 02-26-2009, 02:06 PM

I hope our guts are right, but I do like it.

Only a guess, but since the other one was also in the 100,000 number range, it may be this maker had a contract for consecutive numbers between say 100,000 and 110,000, or something like that.

The ones marked with M1/70 all seem to fall in the 8000 - 9999 range of numbers. I've never looked at the M1/78 number range. M1/120 seems to have had the contract for the unnumbered "B" badges.

**Wim Vangossum** · 02-27-2009, 02:39 AM

I'm very sceptical but if it comes from an unaltered group it has to be good. But always be careful even with a group8 And like Stephen said maybe it had a small contract but Deumer also made badges in the 100.000 range. Have one in my file starting already at 55722. The highest number I've seen is 134462 (Deumer) All are discused on this forum in the last couple of years. The only thing I find wierd is that they choose for such a rough stippeling.
I'm not very convinced but if I can find more information I will change my mind

Regards, Theo

**Nordmark** · 03-04-2009, 03:52 PM

Here is mine:

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**Nordmark** · 03-04-2009, 03:53 PM

..........

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**Nordmark** · 03-04-2009, 03:53 PM

...........................................

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**Gary Symonds** · 03-04-2009, 04:06 PM

Looks good to me, though I don't like the RZM trademark; no cross stroke on the "Z".

**stuart a.** · 03-04-2009, 05:11 PM

there plenty of original badges with no cross stroke through the z, the fact that this is deemed bad is a bit of a myth
stu

**Nordmark** · 03-04-2009, 05:55 PM

Hi guys,

I just looked and saw that M1/78 Paulmann & Crone, Lüdenscheid has the same RZM marking. I got mine from a good source as well. I highly doubt that these are fakes...

Regards,

Daniel

**sjl** · 03-04-2009, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by stuart anstee View Post

there plenty of original badges with no cross stroke through the z, the fact that this is deemed bad is a bit of a myth
stu

Stuart is right - the lack of a cross-stroke on the Z in the RZM logo is perfectly acceptable, as is single or double circle. Some early books mistakenly said they were bad, which is not true at all.

**Wim Vangossum** · 03-07-2009, 12:54 PM

Okay. The numbers are in the beginning of the 100.000 range. So this could be a producer with a contract before Deumer. The few Deumers in my list are in the 130.000 range exept for one with the number 55.722?

Can someone tell me more about the aging (greay patina) of Nordmarks' badge? Is someone ware of a similar ageing visible on other Golden HJ awards or GPB's ?

Regards, Theo

**sjl** · 03-07-2009, 03:17 PM

I don't think it is aging as much as it is a loss of gilding, showing a base of zinc or other white metal. I know the M1/70s are a brass base.

**Wim Vangossum** · 03-08-2009, 05:09 AM

You could be right, Stephen. Maybe it is zinc or another white metal. I diden't even dare to thought about that or mentioned it. How does this fit into all the other made quality badges with fire gilting over brass or tombak? If I remember right their exist a type of Führer sportabzeichen with another makermark then M1/101 which have the same problem with its gold finish. That Sportabzeichen isn't also comparable with the high quality M1/101. I still try to keep an open mind but I have problems with accepting a zinc base Golden HJ honor Badge.

Regards, Theo

**Steve C** · 03-08-2009, 08:25 AM

Well just to make things more interesting mine is quite worn and the base material is brass, no white metal or zinc in sight and feels the same weight as my m1/78. If I can get my damn scales working I will give you some exact weights.
So what's happened to Nordmarks is confusing.
Glad to see this thread keeps running
Regards
Steve

**sjl** · 03-08-2009, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by Theo Cuypers View Post

You could be right, Stephen. Maybe it is zinc or another white metal. I diden't even dare to thought about that or mentioned it. How does this fit into all the other made quality badges with fire gilting over brass or tombak?

Tombac often is a white metal (copper, zinc and adding arsenic makes it lighter colour), so it may be a tombac base showing through. The discolouration on the back looks like it's had a hard life, so I'm not surprised the finish on the front has lifted. I haven't seen enough of the M1/49s to know if this is common construction for this maker.

**Wim Vangossum** · 03-08-2009, 12:16 PM

Ok, thanks for the input. Will do some more research if I find the time. Im' not convinced yet, but hey... much people are still have doubts about the M1/70 and the M1/52. It just need some future reseach but the simply construction and the many manufactuers making this honor award an extremely difficult badge. At this moment I have only information from a few m1/78's with awarding ducument and one mm "15" So if anyone has others with awarding document please show them

Regards, Theo

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m1/49 hj gold honor badge

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