NSDAP 25 year Long Service award

[Nigel N]

hi Joe W, i noticed your cross doesnt have the usual suspension setup for a womens cross??

[Jeff Davis]

Sorry Joe, you are correct.
My ribbon measures at 30 mm - right on the money.

Here is a better picture.

[JoeW]

hi Joe W, i noticed your cross doesnt have the usual suspension setup for a womens cross??

By "usual suspension setup", I take it that you are referring to the private jeweler's creation pictured in Angolia's FFF? There is no substantiation that the brooch setup he pictured was standard for women recipients. The statement that the pictured medal with the odd set loop was for women only is pure fabrication. The only differentiation between men and women's versions of all three grades established in the NSDAP Org Book is the width and length of ribbon.

I have no idea whether my cased 25 year DAZ was issued or not. But the length of proper ribbon indicates it is for a female party member.

[WARLORD]

The small ribbon, was also used on the minature. This is the case for the three grades. There is a further type which is similar to the blue ribbon. What purpouse the varrious typs of ribbon has is as yet unknown. The 25 year cross with the suspension, is a proto type. This also can be found with the stick pin reverse. These are extreemly rare, only two sets have been encountered so far.

[Nigel N]

By "usual suspension setup", I take it that you are referring to the private jeweler's creation pictured in Angolia's FFF? There is no substantiation that the brooch setup he pictured was standard for women recipients. The statement that the pictured medal with the odd set loop was for women only is pure fabrication. The only differentiation between men and women's versions of all three grades established in the NSDAP Org Book is the width and length of ribbon.

I have no idea whether my cased 25 year DAZ was issued or not. But the length of proper ribbon indicates it is for a female party member.

right, i didnt realise that was a private purchase example, so the only difference between men & womens versions is the ribbon!!

[JoeW]

Yes, the ribbon is the only difference between DAZ awards to men and women. Of course you couldn't realize that the suspension example pictured by Angolia was private purchase, as he labeled it incorrectly. Moreover, it was in direct contradiction to his text on the next page that correctly explained that the female awards could be worn around the neck or as a brooch using the 15mm ribbon. But if worn around the neck, then the suspension would be the same as the men's version, which he claimed on the page before was impossible. It often seems as though Angolia wrote the text of his books and then added photographs with random explanations often at odds with the text.

As for the famale suspension version being a "proto-type" rather than simply a jeweler's creation, I wonder whether that claim can be substantiated by reference in party or industry literature or whether it is dealer legend. The discussion link I provided above indicates how scarce female examples of awards were, especially the 25 year version.

[Nigel N]

Yes, the ribbon is the only difference between DAZ awards to men and women. Of course you couldn't realize that the suspension example pictured by Angolia was private purchase, as he labeled it incorrectly. Moreover, it was in direct contradiction to his text on the next page that correctly explained that the female awards could be worn around the neck or as a brooch using the 15mm ribbon. But if worn around the neck, then the suspension would be the same as the men's version, which he claimed on the page before was impossible. It often seems as though Angolia wrote the text of his books and then added photographs with random explanations often at odds with the text.

As for the famale suspension version being a "proto-type" rather than simply a jeweler's creation, I wonder whether that claim can be substantiated by reference in party or industry literature or whether it is dealer legend. The discussion link I provided above indicates how scarce female examples of awards were, especially the 25 year version.

very interesting, i think others must have been influenced by angolia too, as i have a book by chris ailsby where he also mentions a different suspension for the womens version! as you say, these are very rare!!

[JoeW]

Neither Dodkins nor Forman indicate in their books any different suspension for a woman's version. Both the 1940 and 1943 editions of The Organisationsbuch der NSDAP indicates the only difference for the women's version is type of ribbon. Unless substantiation can be found in another source like Uniform-Markt or NSDAP Verordnungsblatter, then a variation from the standard suspension can ony be attributed as a jeweler's rework.

[WARLORD]

This thought is fine. There is no difference between the two forms. The female form was worn round the neck on the minature ribbon. The other form and the pin backed form are a tottally different thing.

[Thomas Bendixen]

Hi everyone

Just saw this thread today and was quite surprised to see that this isn't cried out as a down right fake, wich as you might have guessed, it is in my opinion. I admit that this hobby is not an exact sience but the piece that begin this thread is IMO a casting from an original wich explains why the overall details on the piece presently on e-stand is horribly bad.

I have asked the seller for size in mm. so until he finds a ruler I will bet that this piece is 1-2 mm. smaller than all other accepted pieces.

Please compare the sellers with Joes and Clevischi's very nice pieces - the inner rims on the one presently on estand is crude/uneven and the outer rims almost not there. The eagle looks like melted cheese and the enamel is flush with the inner rims and notice how it meets the inner rims and compare with the quality work on Joes and Clevischi's.

These crosses is supposed to have burnished outer rims of wich I see nothing on the cross in mention.

If the circle on the upper arm is intended as an aimingpoint for correctly placing the "eye" that holds the ring - it was for sure a waste of time since they missed it by fare - wich they did on all the samples of this fake I have handled.

To top it all they put a fake ribbon on the thing as well!

The seller has respectfully asked me to remove my comments from the e-stand wich I ofcourse will do as it wasn't the correct place to air my thoughts, and as a compensation for my fault I here offer the seller to pay for the expenses for a Niemann COA, if it turns out original - that is

Cheers Thomas

[Jeff Davis]

Thomas, thank you for your imput.
A Detlev COA is a waste of paper to me, but I thank you very much for the offer.

I will gladly pull this off estand if it is concluded as a fake.

It measures at 42 mm horizontal and 42 .5 vertically...

[RonR]

Another Cased for comparison.

[RonR]

[RonR]

[RonR]