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    #1

    EKII NSDAP badge-opinions please

    I have an EKII which has a unusual feature. Just below the 1939 on the edge of the rim is a curious half-circle. I have not encountered this before. Any ideas?

    The NSDAP party badge is new to me also, I am not familiar with it but I know you experts are. Can someone enlighten me as to what exactly it is?

    Last but not least is the HJ sports badge. Were they all issued with the numbers imprinted on them, or the letter B? What do I have just something that was unissued? The pics can be viewed at:

    http://www.geocities.com/stampinlyn/Sellers34_homepage
    Tags: None
    #2
    Try this it may work better:

    http://www.geocities.com/stampinlyn/Sellers34 Homepage

    Comment

      #3
      http://www.geocities.com/stampinlyn/Sellers34_Homepage

      Try this link as the last two were incorrect.

      Comment

        #4
        Basically,your EK2 has been assembled with the frame upside down. This small circular markis a location indicator for soldering on the small retaining loop which holds the ribbon ring. The solder usually obscures this mark which would normally of course sit at the top of the frame, not the bottom.

        As the same frames front was used on the EK1, this little mark would be buffed off. Pieces such as these are occasionally spotted, even EK1s, they just slipped through the QA process.

        A lot of fake and post war 1957 pieces, more sloppily assembled, also often show this mark.

        Gordon

        Comment

          #5
          Your NSDAP badge is the Badge of the Federation of German Ethnic Groups Westmark (Alsace-Lorraine) (Abzeichen des Bundes Deutsche Volkgenossen Westmark Elsass-Lothringen). Originals of this badge are quite common, but this badge is possibly the most widely reproduced piece of any Nazi period regalia. On a positive note the fact that your badge has "Saarlauten" on the reverse is a good indication that it is pre-45. As a general rule, post war repros did not have the city's name on the reverse.

          Issued Hitler Youth Proficiency Badges had a serial number stamped on the reverse of the arrow or bore the letter A,B,or C depending on the proficiency test taken.
          Last edited by Ken Jasper; 02-17-2002, 12:55 PM.
          OMSA #6582

          At my age, "getting lucky" is finding my car in the parking lot.

          Comment

            #6
            Ken,

            I was always convinced that there wre no A and C pieces as you described, just B ones. In my opinion this B was not about a proficiency test, just a mark that showed that it was a replacement piece or second piece to the awarded item. What is the root of the A, B and C theory? I have never seen A or C pieces of the HJ sports badges, just B marked ones.

            Cheers, Frank
            Cheers, Frank

            Comment

              #7
              Frank,

              I based my response on what has been written about the Proficiency badges. The late David Littlejohn wrote in his 1988 book "The Hitler Youth": "The tests leading to an award of any of the three types of badges were, in their turn, subdivided into three levels of proficiency, characterized as an A, B, or C grade. In some cases this grading letter appears in place of the more customary issue number on the reverse of the arrow head (left side)." John R. Angolia makes similar startements in his book "For Fuehrer and Fatherland Political and Civil Awards of the Third Reich."

              I admit I have never seen an A or C marked badge and have heard and read that the B badges were replacementsm, but I am not convinced that that is the case. Why would there be a B and not a restamp of the original issue number?

              Best,
              Ken
              Last edited by Ken Jasper; 02-18-2002, 12:52 PM.
              OMSA #6582

              At my age, "getting lucky" is finding my car in the parking lot.

              Comment

                #8
                Dear Ken,

                I have read several times about "second" pieces marked B. Not necessarily replacements, but to my knowledge two were awarded, so everybody had a RZM and a "B" badge. If you lost both and needed another one, it would also be a B badge.
                Some dealers also referred to these B marked pieces as second pieces when selling them
                .
                I believe this theory/fact more than what you quoted from these books. It is true that there ARE these A, B, and C grade proficiency LEVELS but that has nothing to do with the letter B on the back. The simple fact that I haven´t seen ANY A or C badges to date, backs this theory. It is ALWAYS "B" and I have seen quite a few, in reality, online sales catalogues and books, always "B".

                I would be very surprised if somebody could produce a A or C marked HJ sports badge. They are just not there. And according to Littlejohn´s and Angolia´s "facts" they should be there by the thousands. To me, this info from these two books is highly doubtful, as good as their books might be on other awards.

                Cheers, Frank
                Cheers, Frank

                Comment

                  #9
                  I believe the "B" type HJ badges are private purchase, the same is found in HJ Leaders form and also with the Honour membership pins, also with BDM awards. Littlejohn got it wrong with the Leaders badges when he said the "B" type badges were for older leaders. There are a few bits and pieces in that book I've found to be inaccurate, though it is a very good book.

                  I have seen Honour pins with a small "A" above the issue number.

                  I have a M1/34 badge also with no issue # and have seen a few others, they always have lost a lot of original finish. I have seen quite a few badges in all grades with no markings at all.

                  Rick.L. wrote a very good piece on the HJ Leader sports badge and it's issue regarding "B" markings, it's on GDCOM medals forum in the back pages, sadly with photopoint going down my images posted to illustrate it have gone, but Rick.L.s text is great and there's a great original in wear photo from Robert Noss.

                  Best Regards

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Frank,
                    I have never heard nor read that two badges were issueed to the same individual. On what do you base your theory?

                    Colin,

                    Pls see my response on GDC.

                    I enjoy this discussion gentlemen, but none of my German language pre-45 books cover this topic and I am afraid that lacking original source material, we may never solve the mystey of the "B" badges.

                    Ken
                    OMSA #6582

                    At my age, "getting lucky" is finding my car in the parking lot.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Dear Ken,

                      I did not base my thoughts on anything, just an assumption, as I said "to my knowledge". I think I have read this but cannot remember where.
                      Anyways, I just wanted to make a point about the A and C HJ-Leistungsabzeichen, which I am sure did not exist. But I also cannot offer a definitive answer about the B badges. Replacements, private purchases, second pieces are all possible explanataions.

                      Cheers, Frank
                      Cheers, Frank

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Original material is available. I have posted pics from an HJ members Leistungsbuch Der Hitler-Jugend on the GDCOM medal forum, I'm sorry but since photopoint went belly up I can't post pics here, if anyone wants to copy the pics and post them that's fine otherwise anyone interested can have a look there.

                        Best Regards

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Based on what Colin posted on GDCOM, I am now convinced that what I wrote originally about the HJ badges bearing an A, B, or C depending on which test was taken is wrong. Sorry for any confusion that I may have caused. The only Leistungsbuch I have does not contain the page that Colin posted. This has been an excellent educational experience for me and I hope for others as well. Once again these Forums have come through.

                          Humbly (but not too),
                          Ken
                          OMSA #6582

                          At my age, "getting lucky" is finding my car in the parking lot.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Government Issue...

                            I saw your thread and thought it good to post a front and reverse view of an HJ Golden Leaders Sports Badge I own for you. I see one of the private purchase 'B'-type Sports Badges on eBay right now ( 3201360339 ). I don't know of it's authenticity. Still waiting for a front view from the seller.

                            Glad to be of help. Robert
                            Attached Files

                            Comment

                              #15
                              and the reverse...

                              I got this piece from Helmut Weitze @ Hamburg, Germany.

                              Attached Files

                              Comment

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