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**stuart a.** · 03-01-2008, 12:47 PM

heres the back

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HJ-back.jpg (75.7 KB, 144 views)

**Richard** · 03-01-2008, 02:31 PM

The front looks rather convincing however the rear leaves me doubting its originality. Not familiar that this RZM number is a known golden HJ badge maker. Additionally the 52 in the RZM number appears to be double struck. The pin plate and the ridge on the badge for it look unusual. The B along with the award number should not be on the badge together as B marked badges were replacement or "everyday wear" badges purchased at RZM outlets but individuals who already possessed the awarded badge. I would have a hard time accepting this as an original.
Richard V

**Wim Vangossum** · 03-02-2008, 05:06 AM

Hi Richard,

Yes I know the problems with this badge. The backside is weird! My problem is the(IMO) perfect front. Look at the wear on the gilting? How close can it gets to original wear on fire gilting???. I can keep this badge for a few months and returned it without any problem. They exist also with an unexplainable "A" designation, that's another problem. But how weird is the RZM 15 from Hoffstätter on his back? A while back most people shyed away from them. And how about the unusual retaining pin used by Deumer?

Thank you Stuart for posting this pictures for me. And my intention is to get as much opinions as possible. In the main time i will do some more resarch on this paticular Badge.

Regards, Theo

**Killerbee** · 03-02-2008, 08:47 AM

Hello: For me the front looks rather convincing but the back is not consistent with the B pins I've seen and own. But you all know this already. For me it just doesn't look convincing and from a risk management standpoint, I for one would return it. Just my opinon of course.

Regards,

Jim

**Wim Vangossum** · 03-02-2008, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by Killerbee View Post

Hello: For me the front looks rather convincing but the back is not consistent with the B pins I've seen and own. But you all know this already. For me it just doesn't look convincing and from a risk management standpoint, I for one would return it. Just my opinon of course.

Regards,

Jim

Yep, it always comes to the backside that gives troubles. Jim I'm personally only aware of the M1/120 with the "B" indication Do you have seen others? As long as that front side is that perfect I will keep on surching for hard evidence. 1. I have to find out of Descler made this badges and 2 I must search for info about a possible piece with its document and identical serialnumber.

Regards, Theo

**Wim Vangossum** · 03-04-2008, 01:28 PM

A German researcher mailed me that the Deshler Firm in the 90's was tranfered to a company called Pichl. They refused to give information about the Deschler company. So I'm afraid I can't proof that Deschler made the award.

Still havent recieve any comments (good or bad) on what I consider as real Fire gilting.

????

**Wim Vangossum** · 03-10-2008, 02:30 PM

Finnally I found an earlier thread were a forum member has his doubts by the fact that the serial number from the badge in Detlev's book is the same as at least one other badge maker marked by Deschler. So something is wrong.

Regards, Theo

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