Early HJ and DJ pin

[sjl]

The RZM logo was developed late 1934 and by decree of December 20, 1934 made mandatory on designated party insignia starting Jan. 16, 1935. The "M" numbering system was developed around March of 1935.

I have always maintained that these badges with RZM logos should be treated as highly suspect, although some true believers suggest that these could be later re-issues as "Traditions Badges". I have never seen any proof of that. I have also not seen the old style HJ badge in any of the RZM regs. The HJ diamond replaced this round "Arbeiter-Jugend" badge a few years before the RZM - 1933 I think.

[burgerhaus]

HJ Traditions + RZM =

PS Stephen, did you happen to get my e-mail about Herr Schacht?

[Don Scowen]

I fully agree that there shouldn't be full RZM markings on these. However, I'm not so sure that the argument is so cut & dried when it comes to transitional style markings.

There is a slim possibility that there was a small period of time when both the diamond & "traditions" were being made together, which raises the possibility that manufactures could have made them with the transitional markings (as with the party badges there are examples of the HJ diamond with full maker marks, as well as some with transitional marks). We can often see portrait images which show both the "traditions" & the diamond being worn together (see below). Unfortunately the question that we cannot answer is when were those "traditions" badges we see being worn made? Were they old badges worn next to a newly introduced diamond badge, or were both badges new?

As I said at the start, I do not like RZM marked tradition badges, but I'm afraid that my jury is still out with regard to those with transitional style marks. But to make matters even more confusing I'm not sure that I like the one I posted earlier (RZM 63)

Cheers
Don

[sjl]

Thanks for the photo Don. I do like the look of the back of the plain "63" badge you posted, and during the RZM's early transition period there were oddities (which I say quietly because it can be a license for people to justify all kinds of bad badges) like RZM marked Luftwaffe dagger hangers.

In the photo I see the 1933 Nuremberg Rally badge, so one could assume that the wearer was in the HJ Arbeiter Jugend at that time and already had an early badge pre-RZM when the later transition to the HJ diamond took place.

I've always assumed (and it is just an assumption) that the "Traditions" badges came out of old, pre-RZM stock, since there would have been limited new demand for them by 1935. The HJ Traditions badge was still appearing in the Assmann catalogue in 1939, but so were a lot of discontinued metal insignia and badges, and you never know what they had stockpiled in the back room.