Mothers Cross

[Hitman]

Hey,

I'm not sure if this is the right place but Iv got this set Mothers Cross's. Just wanted to make sure they are ok.



Thanks Sean

[redfaced]

You'll have to get closer shots than that! If the enamel is like glass - they should be ok. I got burned on a MK - the enamel was like plastic. Good luck!

[Stahlhelm]

I agree that this is the most appropriate place to post this. I also agree that better, clearer pictures are needed for opinions on authenticity.

Chris

[James Noble]

Sean,
If the stippling under the blue enamel looks something like this that’s a good indication they are authentic IMO.

[Stahlhelm]

I also collect Mother's Crosses. I agree that the visible "stippling" is a good sign. However, I have also seen numerous examples from very reliable sources, without this stippling, also said to be originals. There's even an example of an original Mother's Cross in silver on page 39 of E.W.W. Fowler's book entitled Nazi Regalia, without stippling or tranlucent enamel.

So, I'd just like to clarify for my own knowledge whether you are saying that originals must have the stippling, or if this is just a "good sign." If they must have the stipling, then this is news to me. I've actually had a few in my collection for about 25 years which are not translucent and do not have the stippling. These nonstippled examples in my collection are of the utmost quality and correctness, and no one has ever questioned their originality.

I'm not saying anybody is wrong, of course. I just want to clarify the above, to see if I need to become alarmed about some new information about Mother's Crosses.

Chris

[Al P]

Could you post some pictures of the ones without the stippling? This might be interesting.

Al

[Stahlhelm]

Could you post some pictures of the ones without the stippling? This might be interesting.

Al

Hi Al,

How are you! Actually, I can't post anything right now, because I don't have a stubscription to the site. However, I am now double-checking what I thought I already knew about these Mother's Crosses. I am just about 100% sure that they did not have to be translucent with visible stippling in order to be authentic. I've just seen far too many originals that are not like that.

I do also know that were many, many different makers of those things, and I don't think they had quite so many totally strict standards for production like that. Again, that's just what I've found in lots of looking at these things over the years.

Does anyone else out there collect these and agree with me, or am I all alone here? I'd love to hear from at least one supporter here, so I don't have to go nuts, yet again. The last thing I need now is to have to throw out my set of Mother's Crosses.

Chris

P.S. Also, if anyone out there has a copy of the E.W.W. Fowler book, Nazi Regalia, take a look at the Mother's Cross showcased in there. There is NO translucence or visible stippling.

[Stahlhelm]

Wow! Maybe I've actually learned something here. On closer examination of my Mother's Crosses--that is under flashlight and magnifying glass, I do see the "stippling." Basically, under enough light, with which I do not normally view mine, I can actually see, within the enamel, to a stippling effect beneath. Yes, I can see it; It just isn't really visible under normal lighting.

So, then the only other question may be this: should so much light be required to see this, or is it just the presence of it under whatever conditions that matters. This would also explain why I have not even seen this in any number of other pictures of authentic pieces in books.

I'm at least glad I did find this feature that is considered necessary, regardless of what I needed to do to find it.

As I always say, I'll be the first to admit if I'm wrong. I have no vanity or stubborn pride about any of this stuff. I only have a great desire to learn whatever from whoever knows. So, in the end here, maybe I'm not exactly wrong here. Maybe I was just unaware of what specific conditions may be necessary to see the requirements which mine had all along. So, I am at least thankful for the learing experience.

Chris

[Jono]

I have two MK's and was under the impression that translucent enamel was practically a must for authenticity. I could be wrong but thats what i believed

[Hitman]

My Mother's Crosses do have the stippling, But as the same as Stahlhelm i have to look at them under a good lamp/Bright light to see it. But all 3 to have the stippling.

Ill see if i can get better pics.

Cheers Sean

[redfaced]

Surely this is a question of how translucent the enameling is? If the enamel is opaque, you will not see any stippling.

[James Noble]

There are no absolute guaranty that a cross with stippling and translucent blue enamel is authentic but it is a very good indication it is, if you think about why they used stippling and translucent enamel it was to reflect light, to sparkle like the red enamel and stippling was used on party badges, also look at the width of the white border around the blue enamel it shouldn’t be overly wide also look for imperfections in the surface of said white enamel there should be some random pin holes in it you can see them in the photo I posted and also in Jono’s pic. The main thing to remember these were awards honoring the German mother given by the state so the overall quality of the piece has to be taken in consideration not just the enamel work. Anyway that’s my thoughts on this subject.

[Richardxyz]

Transluency is my first port of call when trying to establishing authencity. I also agree with the point about the overall quality of the piece. Time and effort went in to their production.

[Richardxyz]

It might look like a pizza oven but...

[cysior]

I found 3 pictures od fake/copies of Mutterkreuz, first one is close to orginal but color of the silver wash and lettering are not good enough..