2nd Pattern Blood Order Question

[ErichS]

What's the highest number that anyone has seen on a 2nd pattern BO?

[Panzer Rob]

4139 is the highest I have seen.


Rob

[ErichS]

Thanks Rob. That fits with the aprox. 4000 total awarded. Anyone else?

[Bob Hritz]

I was wondering what the lowest number observed on the 2nd Model Blood Order. has anyone done research on the numbers? Martin Bormann was one of the early awardees of the 2nd pattern, but I have never been able to find his number.

All my efforts to locate a list for the 2nd pattern have been fruitless.

Bob Hritz

[Panzer Rob]

You should probably contact Jon Fish - he's the resident Blutorden expert

[Kyle Harrington]

Borman-Blutorden

Apparently it was largely through the urging of Borman that the 2nd pattern was initiated.Borman coveted this prestigious award yet was ineligible.One of the stipulations vis a vis criteria for the 2nd pattern was to have been imprisoned for the cause, of course Borman fell into this category.He was very jealous of those old fighters who paraded every year, he had his way in the end.

[Panzer Rob]

I was wondering what the lowest number observed on the 2nd Model Blood Order. has anyone done research on the numbers? Martin Bormann was one of the early awardees of the 2nd pattern, but I have never been able to find his number.

All my efforts to locate a list for the 2nd pattern have been fruitless.

Bob Hritz

Bob -

Good question. One of the lowest issue number second pattern Blood Orders I have seen is numbered in the 1900's and is what I would call a "transition piece" meaning that it exhibits the same "3 dot" die flaw found on first patterns.

We can only hope that one day a list will appear with the names and numbers of 2nd pattern holders. For right now all we can do is try to keep a database of the known attributed pieces and keep up with any new "named" 2.pat BO's that surface. It seems that there are several cases of 1st and 2nd patterns coming onto the market directly from the families of the original holders and it's important to document and preserve that info!

Rob

[Panzer Rob]

Apparently it was largely through the urging of Borman that the 2nd pattern was initiated.Borman coveted this prestigious award yet was ineligible.One of the stipulations vis a vis criteria for the 2nd pattern was to have been imprisoned for the cause, of course Borman fell into this category.He was very jealous of those old fighters who paraded every year, he had his way in the end.

Kyle-

This is exactly my understanding as well

Rob

[Erich B.]

I'm sure I've seen a 2nd pattern in the upper 1500's--I'll have to check my records to see if I saved an image or the actual number. It was the lowest I've seen.
Erich

[Panzer Rob]

I'm sure I've seen a 2nd pattern in the upper 1500's--I'll have to check my records to see if I saved an image or the actual number. It was the lowest I've seen.
Erich

Erich-

I would love to see that one if you can find pictures of it.

Rob

[ErichS]

Erich, What is the highest number you have observed?

[Erich B.]

The highest number that I've seen that I documented is 4038, so Rob wins this match!
Erich

[Jon Fish]

Number 4188 is the highest I have come across.Kyle's assesment is correct.However there is no question in my mind the 2nd pattern recipients deserved the award,as we have discussed elsewhere on the forum.Weitze eventually sold the medal you talk about Rob, I was offered it but decided to pass.I did have some reservations on it to be totally honest. I'm really not going to collect them in the 4000 range, the finish is no where as nice as the first pattern or the earlier second patterns, IMO.
I have Second patterns in my collection that are numbered in the 1700,1800 and 1900 series , I can't recall seing any 2nd patterns in the 1500 or 1600 series,yet. I have a first pattern numbered near 1350 ,being the highest first pattern in my collection, but have seen first patterns up to around # 1475-80. So I am looking for second patterns in the 1500 and 1600 range,infact any considered.
Rob, I have scored 2 first pattern medals recently with second pattern Besitz-Urkunde , where the holder has lost his brown first patt wearers document and had it replaced with the red 2nd patt wearers document,mathing numbers of course.

[Kyle Harrington]

Blutorden

I once owned a 2nd pattern 167*, I cannot remember to be honest the last digit, however it was off superb quality.By the way Rob I have found
bits and bobs re: Otto Ertl please send me your address and I will post them to you.
Cheers

[Jon Fish]

Interesting Kyle, shame you don't still have it.These early 2nd patts are stunners indeed.Along with the 1st patts they take a lot of beating.