SS-Zivilabzeichen question

[Humberto Corado]

hello all,


I would like to know if any of you can help me with two questions about SS-Zivilabzeichen.
I am wondering if this pins where awarded with any kind of certificate? as they were numbered or just given to SS members? and if by chance any of you have the meassurements of the pin?


thanks in advance!!!

[Wim Vangossum]

In Cone's book about badges of the third Reich he mentioned that the number (who was not part of the die) was pressed into the backside and was the same as the ID-card number. But Detlev Niemann makes clear that it is only a serial number and not the membership number of the ss-man.1sweat:
The measurment according to Cone is 14.5mm. In some occasions the SS-Zivilabzeichen was presented in a small red case. I find no info about any document that was given with this award.

Regards, Theo

[Humberto Corado]

In Cone's book about badges of the third Reich he mentioned that the number (who was not part of the die) was pressed into the backside and was the same as the ID-card number. But Detlev Niemann makes clear that it is only a serial number and not the membership number of the ss-man.1sweat:
The measurment according to Cone is 14.5mm. In some occasions the SS-Zivilabzeichen was presented in a small red case. I find no info about any document that was given with this award.

Regards, Theo

Thank you very much Theo for your help!

by chance do you have a photo or image of an original one? or with the case?

[RaymondG]

Hi Humberto

Here is an image of a SS-Zivilabzeichen.

The pin was a paid for item (0.5RM) and I think you could apply for one six months after receiving your SS ID papers or if you were a member of the SS before a certain date (someone correct me if I am wrong). If you were feeling wealthy at the time you could buy a silver version if you were wanting to throw your money around for 1.5RM!

The number on the back is simply a serial number and not the individuals SS number. The serial number was recorded in the individuals personnel file.

I have not come across any paperwork given with the pin and though it is logical that the pin would come in a case, I have not seen one yet. If any one has one out there I would love to see one.

All the best

Raymond

[Humberto Corado]

Hi Humberto

Here is an image of a SS-Zivilabzeichen.

The pin was a paid for item (0.5RM) and I think you could apply for one six months after receiving your SS ID papers or if you were a member of the SS before a certain date (someone correct me if I am wrong). If you were feeling wealthy at the time you could buy a silver version if you were wanting to throw your money around for 1.5RM!

The number on the back is simply a serial number and not the individuals SS number. The serial number was recorded in the individuals personnel file.

I have not come across any paperwork given with the pin and though it is logical that the pin would come in a case, I have not seen one yet. If any one has one out there I would love to see one.

All the best

Raymond

Thank you Raymond for the info!!! How inexpensive they were in that time

by chance do you have an image of a SSFM pin too?

[RaymondG]

Hi Humberto

Here is a scan of the standard FM membership pin for you

Raymond

[RaymondG]

And one of the FM honour pin

[Wim Vangossum]

Hi Raymond,

Nice to learn something from someone who is specialized in those things. The only picture I have seen from an cased SS-zivilabzeichen is in Cone's book "Enameled organizational badges of germany 1918 -1945" page 20 and take the form of a small red leatherette case with wite satin on the lid and a black felt bottom. He claimed that 137903 of these small badges were issued up until 1937 and that the badge no longer was given after 1938.

Nice photograph of that FM-honour badge. I never have seen so many markings on the bakside of an award.

Regards, Theo

[RaymondG]

Hi Theo

The honour pin I posted has been re-issued which makes it look a little more cluttered. The original number has been milled off at the top and the new number appears on the left edge.

The honour pin was issued in two batches of 30000 and so this one looks like it may well have had two owners!

Raymond

[torstenbel]

Hi Theo

The honour pin I posted has been re-issued which makes it look a little more cluttered. The original number has been milled off at the top and the new number appears on the left edge.

The honour pin was issued in two batches of 30000 and so this one looks like it may well have had two owners!

Raymond

Hi Raymond, so were there instances were members lost their honour pins for misconduct or similar or did the badges have to be handed back in on the death of the awardee or how do you think they came to be re-issued? Chers, Torsten.

PS: Very nice badges... how many FM badges do you have in your collection?...I have none...

[Humberto Corado]

Hi Humberto

Here is a scan of the standard FM membership pin for you

Raymond

Hello Raymond,

thank you for posting this great pins images!

could be possible that you tell us how much could be a fair price for each of the 3 pins ( SS-Zivilabzeichen, SSFM & FM Honour pin) & the measurements of them if possible & the award criteria for the FM honour pin?

[DZR]

Hi Humberto

Here is an image of a SS-Zivilabzeichen.

The pin was a paid for item (0.5RM) and I think you could apply for one six months after receiving your SS ID papers or if you were a member of the SS before a certain date (someone correct me if I am wrong). If you were feeling wealthy at the time you could buy a silver version if you were wanting to throw your money around for 1.5RM!

The number on the back is simply a serial number and not the individuals SS number. The serial number was recorded in the individuals personnel file.

I have not come across any paperwork given with the pin and though it is logical that the pin would come in a case, I have not seen one yet. If any one has one out there I would love to see one.

All the best

Raymond

Raymond:
Is the serial number and maker mark raised, or impressed on the back of the pictured SS-Zivilabzeichen? I have one that looks just like the one you show, but I have always believed it to be a reproduction. Doesn't the outer silver border also have to be wider than the inner? I would appreciate your expounding on these details.
DZR

[Wim Vangossum]

Hi DZR,
When we waiting on Raymonds explenation I could give you some info from Cone's book. (...) The number was always stamped in the surface but the maker mark was in very rare cases in relief. (...) the outer border was always wider than the inner (...).

regards, Theo

[RaymondG]

Hi

Apologies for the delay in responding to your question.

The serial number and MM are stamped on the reverse of the Zivilabzeichen. I have seen some examples with a raised MM and serial number. I personally think they are not period, though I have no concrete reference data to back this up.

The outer ring is wider than the inner silver ring on the SS-ZA as is with the example that I have shown.

The example I have shown is a good example and so it may well be that yours is original.

Please either send me an image, or post your SS-ZA for forum members to take a look at.

All the best

Raymond

[DZR]

SS-Zivilabzeichen

Hi DZR,
When we waiting on Raymonds explenation I could give you some info from Cone's book. (...) The number was always stamped in the surface but the maker mark was in very rare cases in relief. (...) the outer border was always wider than the inner (...).

regards, Theo

Hi Theo:

I thought I'd post images of this badge now. Perhaps this is one of those rare cases?

DZR